Hey i just was doing some reocording and i listend to the recording after i was done and i noticed that the
hi-hat was up too high. so i brought it down as much as i could on the over head and its still cutting through
a lot of the other cymbals what should i do?

You could hit it lighter maybe. Do you play with a nylon tip stick because they are louder or more accented sort of.

Yeah, you may just have to retrack the song if you don't have a dedicated hi-hat mic'.








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Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

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SGarrett wrote:

Yeah, you may just have to retrack the song if you don't have a dedicated hi-hat mic'.

how would i do that As you can tell im kinda new at this.

Did you do this recording on your own gear? If so, you just need to re-record, or retrack, your part playing lighter on the hats.. If you don't have a hi-hat mic' (I don't) then you've just got your over-heads. At that point, there's no way to separate the hats from the crashes with mixing.

Also note that this may well be how your live sound comes across.








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Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

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Quote:

Also note that this may well be how your live sound comes across.

Yup.

It's a very common problem for drummers to apply too much volume on their hihats/ride if they haven't recorded themselves playing. It's kind of like when a vocalist hears themselves back on tape for the first time. The tape don't lie. Adjust the volume of your limbs.








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First time I recorded my A Custom mastersounds they were all I could hear.

Someone once said accuracy is more important when recording than power. No idea who, but when I heard that I took heed. There are mics, processors, engineers etc etc that can do all kinds of things with your drums and the tone they produce. Give them a great full tone and that will make all the difference to the overall sound of the kit. More so than hammering on it.

With hats and other cymbals especially, just give em enough to get a nice sound.








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RobCrisp.co.uk

Rob Crisp wrote:

First time I recorded my A Custom mastersounds they were all I could hear.

Someone once said accuracy is more important when recording than power. No idea who, but when I heard that I took heed. There are mics, processors, engineers etc etc that can do all kinds of things with your drums and the tone they produce. Give them a great full tone and that will make all the difference to the overall sound of the kit. More so than hammering on it.

With hats and other cymbals especially, just give em enough to get a nice sound.

Also, the quieter you play your cymbals the bigger your drums will sound.








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive

Seriously, cymbals cut through much louder than one might think from sitting behind the kit. When recording, one should readjust the volume of cymbals vs drums to where the drums are a bit louder than the cymbals from back behind the kit. Don't smack those cymbals, caress them.

People are often amazed by how different their kit sounds from "out front" than from behind the kit.

In rehearsal I'll often think I'm barely loud enough to be heard, then I play bass on a tune and find the sound of my snare drum chopping my head off. I've learned that I don't usually need as much volume as I think I do to cut through a band.








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SGarrett wrote:

Rob Crisp wrote:

First time I recorded my A Custom mastersounds they were all I could hear.

Someone once said accuracy is more important when recording than power. No idea who, but when I heard that I took heed. There are mics, processors, engineers etc etc that can do all kinds of things with your drums and the tone they produce. Give them a great full tone and that will make all the difference to the overall sound of the kit. More so than hammering on it.

With hats and other cymbals especially, just give em enough to get a nice sound.

Also, the quieter you play your cymbals the bigger your drums will sound.

I'd never thought of that one!








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RobCrisp.co.uk

theres not much you could do here, you could try to isolate the frequency range where the hi-hats are present and take it out a bith with a really narrow eq but you probably not going to be able to get just the hi-hats lower without lowering all the other cymbals too

I assume you used your own gear. The best thing about this is you have all the time in the world to get what you want. Try a few different placements of the overheads. I do mike my hats, so i like to keep them somewhat out of the overheads. If I'm playing a loud pair of hats I'll try to get one of my crashes between the hats and the mic. Also, try different micing tecniques. Record some x/y and then spaced stereo and different distances from your kit, go get a bite to eat and come back and listen to them all and make a decision.

Hit your cymbals lighter and toms and snare will sound larger. Bohnam knew that.








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ON A MISSION TO SLAY THE RUSH'N DRAG'N

SGarrett wrote:

Rob Crisp wrote:

First time I recorded my A Custom mastersounds they were all I could hear.

Someone once said accuracy is more important when recording than power. No idea who, but when I heard that I took heed. There are mics, processors, engineers etc etc that can do all kinds of things with your drums and the tone they produce. Give them a great full tone and that will make all the difference to the overall sound of the kit. More so than hammering on it.

With hats and other cymbals especially, just give em enough to get a nice sound.

Also, the quieter you play your cymbals the bigger your drums will sound.

that's part of the Bonham sound secret. dude hit his cymbals really light in the studio

also, that's why i NEVER have a dedicated hi-hat mic in the studio. I once asked an engineer why he wasn't micing the hi-hat and his response was perfect "there's 20 mics on the hi-hat". they all pick it up








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Gretz wrote:

SGarrett wrote:

Rob Crisp wrote:

First time I recorded my A Custom mastersounds they were all I could hear.

Someone once said accuracy is more important when recording than power. No idea who, but when I heard that I took heed. There are mics, processors, engineers etc etc that can do all kinds of things with your drums and the tone they produce. Give them a great full tone and that will make all the difference to the overall sound of the kit. More so than hammering on it.

With hats and other cymbals especially, just give em enough to get a nice sound.

Also, the quieter you play your cymbals the bigger your drums will sound.

that's part of the Bonham sound secret. dude hit his cymbals really light in the studio

also, that's why i NEVER have a dedicated hi-hat mic in the studio. I once asked an engineer why he wasn't micing the hi-hat and his response was perfect "there's 20 mics on the hi-hat". they all pick it up

Yep, that's where I got it from. Something I'm working on right now, myself.

And that's so true. Even the kick mic' picks up small amounts of the hats.








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive

You serious? Jeez, I hadn't heard of that technique before. You would have thought in this day & age you would be able to record drums without having to compromise your playing style by hitting cymbals lighter. Isn't that tricky if you're getting right into the music?

Isn't it also about choice of hats? I used to use a pair of 14" top-heavy Paiste 404's back in the olden days which were unbelievably loud and a problem in the studio. I've used 12" Zildjians for years and they're great & splashy.

T.








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Drums, cymbals, sticks.

Tony H. wrote:

You serious? Jeez, I hadn't heard of that technique before. You would have thought in this day & age you would be able to record drums without having to compromise your playing style by hitting cymbals lighter. Isn't that tricky if you're getting right into the music?

Isn't it also about choice of hats? I used to use a pair of 14" top-heavy Paiste 404's back in the olden days which were unbelievably loud and a problem in the studio. I've used 12" Zildjians for years and they're great & splashy.

T.

I don't think it's a matter of "compromising your playing style" at all. I think it's a matter of actually knowing what you sound like from the other side of your kit.








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Yah, if your hats are way too loud in the overheads, there is a good chance they are ubnoctious live as well.








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when im looking at the picture under the origional post, the first thing that catches my attention is that you have (what looks like) 14" z custom high hats.

1 big heavy hi-hats are big...and LOUD!
-try some 13's or A customs. anything thats smaller and/or lighter.

2 your hats and snare leval look pretty close
-when i have a session coming up i start practicing with my cymbles (and hats) just a little higher up than normal.
- also. i put a piece of foam around my snare mic, point it away from the hi-hats, while trying to execute the best positition on the snare.

try checking those files again and see if you have more bleed-though from your overheads, or if its from the snare.

but, always.... take it easy on those cymbles.


forgive the spelling. im in a rush with no spell check.

-peace








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FWIW, I just read an article about Silverchair's drummer and their last recording. He used two 14" Thin Crashes as High Hats.








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Get rid of those Z custom hats. those things are so loud. I would never use any z custom cymbals for recording. even if I used them live








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FelterSkelter wrote:

FWIW, I just read an article about Silverchair's drummer and their last recording. He used two 14" Thin Crashes as High Hats.

I see what u are saying. But i just want to know, do u seriously like young modern compared to frog stomp and freak show? thats my opinion anyway.








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antiunderscores wrote:

FelterSkelter wrote:

FWIW, I just read an article about Silverchair's drummer and their last recording. He used two 14" Thin Crashes as High Hats.

I see what u are saying. But i just want to know, do u seriously like young modern compared to frog stomp and freak show? thats my opinion anyway.

I actually haven't listened to anything of theirs in close to 10 years now. I just read the article and thought it was interesting and pertinent to this discussion.








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That's nutty. But, they also had pro engineers and producers who new what to do to compensate for that huge sound being in the room.








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xdoseonex wrote:

Get rid of those Z custom hats. those things are so loud. I would never use any z custom cymbals for recording. even if I used them live

clang clang clang went the trolley








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I'll have to be honest with you guys...I don't have this problem.
I use 2 overheads and a Hi-Hat mic and play as hard as the music moves me to play.
except for the Genesis stuff, which was recorded primitively, with a Shure unisphere on overhead and no Hi-Hat mic. You might want to change the EQ of those mics.








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Most decent studio drum mic's will be gated anyway. A decent engineer will reduce any spill. Never had the hi hat volume issue in the past. Only time I've ever had to alter my playing in the studio was crashing WAY too heavy on the ride that it became almost noiseless in the mix. Was just getting too into the song!!

Home recording is always a b*stard for drum tracks. Try the old school "triangle" 3 mic thing, or pull your left overhead slightly more to the right.

Then again Z Customs are meant be f*cking LOUD!!

Trial and error you'll find.

I'm just working on lowering the amounts of power I place on my cymbals, hats in particular.








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Original Frosty.

You should NEVER have to adjust your playing style for the sake of recording. Mic placement is everything in drum recording. This may sound like an easy enough solution, but it takes a great deal of time and patience to get it right. If you are recording at home I would recommend an X-Y mic set up on overheads to minimize phase cancellation and use a pair of small diaphragm condenser microphones. At this point it's all about trial and error, and LOTS of it. With that in mind, I would suggest taking 1 of 2 approaches to using overheads. One, if you have a great sounding drum set in JUST the overheads, use them as your main drum sound, and use the close mics as spot mics. This rarely occurs in home recording, and more often in a professional studios due to the quality of mics, pre amps, and great sounding rooms. The second approach is to use the close mics as your main drum sound, and rolling the low end out of the overheads, using them for the cymbals and hihat. I know this is more info than what you asked for but I hope it helps you.

Quote:

Home recording is always a b*stard for drum tracks. Try the old school "triangle" 3 mic thing, or pull your left overhead slightly more to the right.

This is not true for me.

Quote:

The second approach is to use the close mics as your main drum sound, and rolling the low end out of the overheads, using them for the cymbals and hihat. I know this is more info than what you asked for but I hope it helps you.

This is the problem.
You need to use a high pass filter on the parametric








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No one says you have to change your playing style. But the fact remains that cymbals generate more cutting volume than toms. If you play your cymbals harder than your toms, more cymbal will come through the mix. So, playing your drums harder than your cymbals will make them sound bigger. Do it or not, that's entirely a personal choice. I find that I'm able to turn my overheads up a lot more now that I'm not playing my cymbals as hard. I still get nice and full sounds from all of them, too.








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive