14x8 10ply birch
green sparkle










_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!








_________________

zen_drummer wrote:

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!

why is that now?
all that ish is perfectly aligned








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

zen_drummer wrote:

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!

why is that now?
all that ish is perfectly aligned

Can't you see how crooked the badge is compared to the vent hole?



And look at the lugs compared to the vent and each other...










_________________

It's even more visible if we put a reference mark dead center on the badge itself, this illustrates how far the centerline of the badge is from the vent hole.










_________________

i mean really, do you have nothing better to do with your life than make grids showing how that badge is off by what? not even a 1/4 of an inch. is your life really that boring?








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

i mean really, do you have nothing better to do with your life than make grids showing how that badge is off by what? not even a 1/4 of an inch. is your life really that boring?

I'm afraid when you put it out there--on a site that has some serious drum folks on it, you're opening yourself to a lot of scrutiny. Believe it not, we actually know something about this odd craft called "drumming," and some of us -- like Zen, I and others have been at it a while.

That being said, I was curious what you were going to used a drum that deep for? It's very pretty and all, but 8" is a tad deep. Is this a concert drum?








_________________
Alden Merrill

Ford Drums
Zildjian Cymbals, Aquarian Heads
Vater, Cappella and Vic Firth Sticks
Proudly playing drums crafted in the USA.

i'm not defending the kid and his "not so awesome" drum,
but could it be the picture maybe?

..just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt?
maybe?






..eh it's probably crooked

shine.fm-youth wrote:

i'm not defending the kid and his "not so awesome" drum,
but could it be the picture maybe?

..just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt?
maybe?
..eh it's probably crooked

Nah, it's crooked.

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

i mean really, do you have nothing better to do with your life than make grids showing how that badge is off by what? not even a 1/4 of an inch. is your life really that boring?

I have plenty of stuff to keep me busy, and my life isn't really boring at all... but you put these pictures of your work out there for us to see, and I assume it's so we can comment on it!

Now, you said it was in "perfect alignment" and you can now see with my illustration that your badge (or vent hole) is off by probably 3/16".

If your snare bed is off center by 3/16" that drum will sound like crap and be difficult to tune. If your throw-off is mounted crooked (which I cannot tell if it is or it isn't from the pictures) then the drum will have some pretty serious issues, and the person that buys the drum will never get the quality that should be one of the main reasons for buying a custom made drum.

What we CAN tell from the picture you posted is that you clearly need to learn how to use a tape measure, and you need to learn how to become more accurate in your manufacturing processes. Precision is EVERYTHING! When you make statements that defend your work and declare that everything is in PERFECT alignment, only to reveal later that it is not, you are projecting that you either:
1) Can't tell that the drum assembly lacks precision
0r
2) You don't CARE that the drum assembly lacks precision

Either way, you have an issue to deal with... either you should learn how to measure AND be able to hit those measurments, or you should realize that precision counts, and start caring if you're making a quality product.

It looks to me like you have spent a lot of time working on your new logos and marketing materials and you have ignored the fact that your drums need to have the exact same attention to detail that you have obviously put into your marketing efforts.

Evreything I have posted here on this thread, and on other threads where you are hawking your wares, is designed to make you MORE aware of how to be a better drum builder. If you take this advice, rather than acusing me of being bored, I think you'll make better drums.

Anybody that knows me well (and there are few of them on this board) can testify that I am a VERY busy man with precious little spare time on my hands. I am MAKING the time to create the grids and guide lines to demonstrate to you some of the flaws in your work... I'm doing you a favor.

Have you considered thanking me? I think that would be more appropriate than saying my life is boring and I have too much time on my hands.

SLOW DOWN... Measure three times, drill once... Make PERFECT drums... it can be done. I dare you to do it!








_________________

Dude, to be honest, these guys are being nice. I've seen worse reviews.








_________________
www.pjclevenger.com

www.medicinemandrumsaz.com

DML Special: 20% off all drums.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights do make a left!

Timekeep69 wrote:

Dude, to be honest, these guys are being nice. I've seen worse reviews.

and ya know this is right because PJ is (obviously) a custom drum dealer

PJ, can ya tell us of any bad reviews published about Medicine Man Drums as I have never heard a bad word yet about them








_________________
Mapex/Pearl/Meinl/Remo/Pro-Mark/Axis used and abused!! \m/

Ok heres the deal. Your vent hole is off center, which means it was improperly measured. When people see that they're gonna start to think that maybe its not the only thing on the drum thats improperly measured. something made you measure that off center, whether it was laziness or just lack of experience, you have to relize that when they see this, they may assume that the same thing may have caused you to mismeasure on the throwoff or the snare bed. And as zendrummer said. some slight foul ups in the measurments of a snare bed will make your drum pretty much impossibly to tune, and it the throwoffs mounted a bit crooked, forget about it. Now the vent hole being a fraction of an inch isn't gonna make your drum sound bad, the most it'll do is make it look unprofessional, (in my opinion it already has). But it shows that you can and have measured improperly. and if you apply that to certain aspects of the drum (beds, throwoff, buttplate, BEARING EDGE) You absolutey can not accept those flaws in craftmanship. Show your customers that they have no worries. show them that everything on theyre drum will be crafted with such precision that you dare them to try and find a point to rag on your work. Your in a flooded market, if your drum has ONE visible flaw it will go right out the window and a customer will pick from one of the other 200 custom drum companies to get that snare.

For now my best advice for right now would to be to get a layout mat.
http://www.drumfoundry.com/p-2966-shell-layout-mat.aspx








_________________

The company I work for builds banks. 1/4" off center would have my head on a platter. That is without excuse.

++1 for those who noticed that straight up.








_________________
ThePloughman

ThePloughman wrote:

Duct Tape, Moongells, and Remos...... with pinstripes

Rogers Drums USA

Check this out
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=196158

My initial thought is that if the builder does not even notice that the badge that signifies that it was built by him is not aligned properly, why should we think that the details we cannot see, specifically the bearing edges, have been routed to exact specifications. Good luck in your endeavors.








_________________
www.myspace.com/steppinrazorreggaeband

I proudly endorse Medicine Man Drums, AZ

What you have here is educated, constructive criticism. You can choose to ignore it, and think everyone is bashing you. Or, take it to heart that we are really trying to help you. When I got my first drum from PJ, I went over it CLOSELY, now mindyou, I work with measurements in the thousandths of an inch, and fractions of degrees of angles. The drum was flawless. That shows to me as much as the sound the quality I got. Just trying to help. The road to success is paved with failures.








_________________
I PROUDLY ENDORSE MEDICINE MAN DRUMS AND SALUDA CYMBALS, and Bud light.



www.drumroadtrip.com
www.myspace.com/newconceptpercussion
www.myspace.com/bngrzn

Atmerrill wrote:

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

i mean really, do you have nothing better to do with your life than make grids showing how that badge is off by what? not even a 1/4 of an inch. is your life really that boring?

I'm afraid when you put it out there--on a site that has some serious drum folks on it, you're opening yourself to a lot of scrutiny. Believe it not, we actually know something about this odd craft called "drumming," and some of us -- like Zen, I and others have been at it a while.

That being said, I was curious what you were going to used a drum that deep for? It's very pretty and all, but 8" is a tad deep. Is this a concert drum?

i didnt build it for me, its a customers snare, my friend has a recording studio and wanted a snare that people could use








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

xdoseonex wrote:

Ok heres the deal. Your vent hole is off center, which means it was improperly measured. When people see that they're gonna start to think that maybe its not the only thing on the drum thats improperly measured. something made you measure that off center, whether it was laziness or just lack of experience, you have to relize that when they see this, they may assume that the same thing may have caused you to mismeasure on the throwoff or the snare bed. And as zendrummer said. some slight foul ups in the measurments of a snare bed will make your drum pretty much impossibly to tune, and it the throwoffs mounted a bit crooked, forget about it. Now the vent hole being a fraction of an inch isn't gonna make your drum sound bad, the most it'll do is make it look unprofessional, (in my opinion it already has). But it shows that you can and have measured improperly. and if you apply that to certain aspects of the drum (beds, throwoff, buttplate, BEARING EDGE) You absolutey can not accept those flaws in craftmanship. Show your customers that they have no worries. show them that everything on theyre drum will be crafted with such precision that you dare them to try and find a point to rag on your work. Your in a flooded market, if your drum has ONE visible flaw it will go right out the window and a customer will pick from one of the other 200 custom drum companies to get that snare.

For now my best advice for right now would to be to get a layout mat.
http://www.drumfoundry.com/p-2966-shell-layout-mat.aspx

vent isnt crooked, the tag is alittle, its just the angle of the picture








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

xdoseonex wrote:

Ok heres the deal. Your vent hole is off center, which means it was improperly measured. When people see that they're gonna start to think that maybe its not the only thing on the drum thats improperly measured. something made you measure that off center, whether it was laziness or just lack of experience, you have to relize that when they see this, they may assume that the same thing may have caused you to mismeasure on the throwoff or the snare bed. And as zendrummer said. some slight foul ups in the measurments of a snare bed will make your drum pretty much impossibly to tune, and it the throwoffs mounted a bit crooked, forget about it. Now the vent hole being a fraction of an inch isn't gonna make your drum sound bad, the most it'll do is make it look unprofessional, (in my opinion it already has). But it shows that you can and have measured improperly. and if you apply that to certain aspects of the drum (beds, throwoff, buttplate, BEARING EDGE) You absolutey can not accept those flaws in craftmanship. Show your customers that they have no worries. show them that everything on theyre drum will be crafted with such precision that you dare them to try and find a point to rag on your work. Your in a flooded market, if your drum has ONE visible flaw it will go right out the window and a customer will pick from one of the other 200 custom drum companies to get that snare.

For now my best advice for right now would to be to get a layout mat.
http://www.drumfoundry.com/p-2966-shell-layout-mat.aspx

vent isnt crooked, the tag is alittle, its just the angle of the picture

when i said crooked vent i meant crooked badge








_________________

xdoseonex wrote:

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

xdoseonex wrote:

Ok heres the deal. Your vent hole is off center, which means it was improperly measured. When people see that they're gonna start to think that maybe its not the only thing on the drum thats improperly measured. something made you measure that off center, whether it was laziness or just lack of experience, you have to relize that when they see this, they may assume that the same thing may have caused you to mismeasure on the throwoff or the snare bed. And as zendrummer said. some slight foul ups in the measurments of a snare bed will make your drum pretty much impossibly to tune, and it the throwoffs mounted a bit crooked, forget about it. Now the vent hole being a fraction of an inch isn't gonna make your drum sound bad, the most it'll do is make it look unprofessional, (in my opinion it already has). But it shows that you can and have measured improperly. and if you apply that to certain aspects of the drum (beds, throwoff, buttplate, BEARING EDGE) You absolutey can not accept those flaws in craftmanship. Show your customers that they have no worries. show them that everything on theyre drum will be crafted with such precision that you dare them to try and find a point to rag on your work. Your in a flooded market, if your drum has ONE visible flaw it will go right out the window and a customer will pick from one of the other 200 custom drum companies to get that snare.

For now my best advice for right now would to be to get a layout mat.
http://www.drumfoundry.com/p-2966-shell-layout-mat.aspx

vent isnt crooked, the tag is alittle, its just the angle of the picture

when i said crooked vent i meant crooked badge

ok

i wont have to worry about that anymore, got new plastic sheild badges

oh and dude, i do have the DF layout mat, and BTW thanks for the words of advice, i will prove everyone wrong








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

xdoseonex wrote:

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

xdoseonex wrote:

Ok heres the deal. Your vent hole is off center, which means it was improperly measured. When people see that they're gonna start to think that maybe its not the only thing on the drum thats improperly measured. something made you measure that off center, whether it was laziness or just lack of experience, you have to relize that when they see this, they may assume that the same thing may have caused you to mismeasure on the throwoff or the snare bed. And as zendrummer said. some slight foul ups in the measurments of a snare bed will make your drum pretty much impossibly to tune, and it the throwoffs mounted a bit crooked, forget about it. Now the vent hole being a fraction of an inch isn't gonna make your drum sound bad, the most it'll do is make it look unprofessional, (in my opinion it already has). But it shows that you can and have measured improperly. and if you apply that to certain aspects of the drum (beds, throwoff, buttplate, BEARING EDGE) You absolutey can not accept those flaws in craftmanship. Show your customers that they have no worries. show them that everything on theyre drum will be crafted with such precision that you dare them to try and find a point to rag on your work. Your in a flooded market, if your drum has ONE visible flaw it will go right out the window and a customer will pick from one of the other 200 custom drum companies to get that snare.

For now my best advice for right now would to be to get a layout mat.
http://www.drumfoundry.com/p-2966-shell-layout-mat.aspx

vent isnt crooked, the tag is alittle, its just the angle of the picture

when i said crooked vent i meant crooked badge

ok

i wont have to worry about that anymore, got new plastic sheild badges

oh and dude, i do have the DF layout mat, and BTW thanks for the words of advice, i will prove everyone wrong

alright dude,
i honestly hope you do..
let's see other pictures when you get them

well besides, the badge thats slightly off

does the drum look good?








_________________
Creature Drum Co. Kit
20x24, 12x6, 15x13
Ghost Black Satin Stain w/ Brass Hardware

14x7 Hybrid Snare (Green Glitter/Clear Acrylic) {STOLEN}

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

well besides, the badge thats slightly off

does the drum look good?

It looks sweet. And I'm sure it sounds fine.








_________________
I PROUDLY ENDORSE MEDICINE MAN DRUMS AND SALUDA CYMBALS, and Bud light.



www.drumroadtrip.com
www.myspace.com/newconceptpercussion
www.myspace.com/bngrzn

Half of your problem is that you take offense and get defensive to any criticism you you receive. If someone gives you constructive criticism, learn from it. If someone were to tell me "Your drums need work," the first thing out of my mouth would be "where?"

I've screwed up drums before too, the difference is I've never let them out the door.








_________________
www.pjclevenger.com

www.medicinemandrumsaz.com

DML Special: 20% off all drums.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights do make a left!

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

oh and dude, i do have the DF layout mat, and BTW thanks for the words of advice, i will prove everyone wrong

The layout mat will only take you so far!

I have a few questions for you regarding your process...

Are you using brad point drill bits to drill your lugs, and a forstner bit for your vent hole? Are you using a drill press or a hand drill?

Even if you measure flawlessly, standard drill bits will drift when you make the holes especially if you're using a hand drill. Brad point bits will stay on target and your holes will be exactly where you measured them. On a larger hole such as the vent hole, a Forstner bit will go through and stay exactly on track, because once the hole is started it uses the outside of the bit as a guide.

The correct tools do cost a fair amount more than standard drill bits, but your drums will benefit from using the right stuff.

I would be interested in seeing the inside of one of your drums. Do you use a router table for the bearing edge or a hand held router?








_________________

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

well besides, the badge thats slightly off

does the drum look good?

your lugs aren't in line either. but its a cool looking drum








_________________

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

Atmerrill wrote:

bodiesablaze805 wrote:

i mean really, do you have nothing better to do with your life than make grids showing how that badge is off by what? not even a 1/4 of an inch. is your life really that boring?

I'm afraid when you put it out there--on a site that has some serious drum folks on it, you're opening yourself to a lot of scrutiny. Believe it not, we actually know something about this odd craft called "drumming," and some of us -- like Zen, I and others have been at it a while.

That being said, I was curious what you were going to used a drum that deep for? It's very pretty and all, but 8" is a tad deep. Is this a concert drum?

i didnt build it for me, its a customers snare, my friend has a recording studio and wanted a snare that people could use

You built a drum that deep for a studio snare? Wow….your friend must have a pretty big studio. Most drummers in the studio use a 5.5 x 14, or a 6.5 x 14, and even then, most snares are pretty controlled. You may well have built your friend an M80 when all they needed was a firecracker.

Also, you might well reconsider and double check your efforts before you post any more drums here with us. I hate to see anyone’s efforts disparaged, but obviously this is not a 1st rate product. I also hope you’ll factor in our feedback into what ever you charged your friend. Good luck on future projects.








_________________
Alden Merrill

Ford Drums
Zildjian Cymbals, Aquarian Heads
Vater, Cappella and Vic Firth Sticks
Proudly playing drums crafted in the USA.

i think a ton of sound advice was given here, but just to be fair, zen starting off the replies to this post by saying:

zen_drummer wrote:

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!

isn't exactly the best way to initiate 'constructive criticism'.

i know you were just trying to help, but to be honest, that would probably get me on the defensive as well.

it is a cool looking drum and i dont see a problem with building an 8'' deep snare at all. vinnie pauls snare is 8 deep i think. but to the point, i noticed the badge was off centre straight away. i have a good eye for these things and can tell you that if i built a drum, the badge would be the last part of assembly, kind of like a 'finishing touch' to my work. i take pride in my work (carpenter) and i would also take pride in fixing that badge on. if i was looking into buying a drum from you and saw that badge all crooked, then i would have to question the 'pride' you put into the rest of the drum, and probably look elsewhere! first impressions are very important when trying to get people to spend hard earned cash............!








_________________
www.myspace.com/dammow

sarcasmsetyourhouseonfire wrote:

i think a ton of sound advice was given here, but just to be fair, zen starting off the replies to this post by saying:

zen_drummer wrote:

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!

isn't exactly the best way to initiate 'constructive criticism'.

i know you were just trying to help, but to be honest, that would probably get me on the defensive as well.

I agree to an extent. I've talked to Zen on the phone numerous times and that is his personality. He is a straight forward individual who has forgotten more than some of us will ever know. Does his statement come off bad when put on the web, yeah, but he was and is trying to help nonetheless.








_________________


_____________________
SilverFox HR Sticks, Medicine Man rebuilt PDP Snares, PDP Drums, Zildjian, Meinl, Po Boy Cymbals, DW and Pearl Hardware and pedals

sarcasmsetyourhouseonfire wrote:

i think a ton of sound advice was given here, but just to be fair, zen starting off the replies to this post by saying:

zen_drummer wrote:

dude, you have really got to learn how to use a tape measure!

isn't exactly the best way to initiate 'constructive criticism'. i know you were just trying to help, but to be honest, that would probably get me on the defensive as well.

There are times when being gentle, pragmatic and diplomatic are the best course of action.

There are times when being brash and to the point have the best net-effect...

Then, there are those times when you want to grab somebody by the shoulders and shake them until they lose conciousness, and even when they are down on the ground, they STILL need a good slap in the head.

This was one of those situations...

Creature drums has posted on this forum in the past, and the work posted was sub-par. I shredded his work then and I would shred it again, because sometimes letting a guy get defensive is the easiest way to get his attention, then, once he cools down, he listens... The emotional roller-coaster ride can be beneficial.

But in this case, he KNEW his work would be scrutinized! He's been through it before, and he STILL posted pictures of a drum that is shoddy workmanship. The criticism he endured before did not teach him a thing. In fact, it was news to him that there were flaws in the drum!

Now... if I can tell that something is off center without a tape measure in hand because it's so far off that it is completely visible, why can't HE tell it's that far off?

He simply isn't paying attention to detail.

So... DUDE... you REALLY have to learn how to use a tape measure! If you can't see how crooked something is, then MEASURE to be SURE things are straight.

Don't you think his customers deserve it?








_________________

TONIGHT AT THE METROPLEX ARENA IT'S THE GREEN BEAST vs THE HULK!!!!!
In a no holds barred grudge match to the death!!!!
[img][/img]








_________________
You say irritant, I say catalyst

Rockula! wrote:

TONIGHT AT THE METROPLEX ARENA IT'S THE GREEN BEAST vs THE HULK!!!!!
In a no holds barred grudge match to the death!!!!
[img][/img]

Sorry The HULK takes it.








_________________


_____________________
SilverFox HR Sticks, Medicine Man rebuilt PDP Snares, PDP Drums, Zildjian, Meinl, Po Boy Cymbals, DW and Pearl Hardware and pedals

dude! WTF IS THAT!?

I WANT ONE.








_________________
english, motherf**ker, do you speak it!?
http://www.myspace.com/tuskband

It's a floor snare. My partner was messing with those a few years ago, they never really caught on though.








_________________
www.pjclevenger.com

www.medicinemandrumsaz.com

DML Special: 20% off all drums.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights do make a left!

LOL, There's a floor drain under the HULK!

Is this to make the clean-up of the arena easier after the slaughter?








_________________

Rockula! wrote:

TONIGHT AT THE METROPLEX ARENA IT'S THE GREEN BEAST vs THE HULK!!!!!
In a no holds barred grudge match to the death!!!!
[img][/img]

"My snare's bigger than your snare, my snare's bigger than your's..........."

I couldn't predict the outcome here until I had a chance to visually check the placement of the name badge......








_________________
Alden Merrill

Ford Drums
Zildjian Cymbals, Aquarian Heads
Vater, Cappella and Vic Firth Sticks
Proudly playing drums crafted in the USA.

It's an old Slingerland marching snare
I put floor tom legs on it and a regular snare throw off because the gut snares are way too expensive








_________________
You say irritant, I say catalyst

i didnt read all of the posts, but are you the owner of creation? your sets are extreamly nice.








_________________
www.myspace.com/tomorrownevercameny
www.myspace.com/rayaltamura
CHECK OUT MY BAND IF YOU LIKE
Misery Signals
Underoath

Rockula! wrote:

TONIGHT AT THE METROPLEX ARENA IT'S THE GREEN BEAST vs THE HULK!!!!!
In a no holds barred grudge match to the death!!!!
[img][/img]

haha, to each his won but that thing is hideous!!! lol

I' sorry, but it's so odd. I never seen that before. I bet it sounds nice though








_________________