after reading this post i really want to say that as musicians we should know when to keep it simple and when we should make it technical. i have nothing against simplicity when the music calls for it [anymore], but i have nothing against technicality when the music calls for it either. i dk whether it's an elitist attitude or some sort of hostility some of u have, but i do take it a little personally when you guys talk down about technical music. my most recent musical endevor is technical based. the music calls for that. and it is of course harder to play than the basics. that's why i don't understand seasoned players talking down about it. when i apply for a teaching position or a jazz fusion gig, the boom boom bap wont get me a call back. you guys should be encouraging beginners to advance there skills but to know what to play for the gig/audition. not tell them to settle for average.








_________________
http://www.myspace.com/atrubandpage

Creativity+Speed+Technicality=Progression

Why do you have to keep arguing this? If it makes you feel better to say "play for the song", then say that. Get over it, nobody's talking down to technical music. The case in point was my playing on singer/songwriter pop/rock songs, where technical fills don't fit. This is not settling for average, it's doing what the person who hired you, hired you to do. If you play improvisational jazz on a straight ahead gig, you won't get a call back either. See, the street goes two ways and is highly dependent on context. You know how you learn what not to play? By spending many years behind the kit and playing with a wide variety of people. One of the biggest lessons is when you get fired and replaced by someone who can't play half of what you can play, but can rock it like there's no tomorrow. Every single one of us has had that lesson. When Tony Royster, Jr. is playing with En Vogue, he doesn't do the circus tricks he's known for. Why? Because they'd fire his ass before he got off stage for blowing chops through their music.

I'm working through Bill Ray's book right now and let me tell you that there is nothing average about his concepts. Yet, he still advocated exactly what that image says and seems to have a fair amount of work. Hell, he's even taught drummers you know. Think about it.

"Master your instrument, master the music, then forget that shit and just play."
-Charlie Parker








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive

SGarrett wrote:

Why do you have to keep arguing this? If it makes you feel better to say "play for the song", then say that. Get over it, nobody's talking down to technical music. The case in point was my playing on singer/songwriter pop/rock songs, where technical fills don't fit. This is not settling for average, it's doing what the person who hired you, hired you to do. If you play improvisational jazz on a straight ahead gig, you won't get a call back either. See, the street goes two ways and is highly dependent on context. You know how you learn what not to play? By spending many years behind the kit and playing with a wide variety of people. One of the biggest lessons is when you get fired and replaced by someone who can't play half of what you can play, but can rock it like there's no tomorrow. Every single one of us has had that lesson. When Tony Royster, Jr. is playing with En Vogue, he doesn't do the circus tricks he's known for. Why? Because they'd fire his ass before he got off stage for blowing chops through their music.

I'm working through Bill Ray's book right now and let me tell you that there is nothing average about his concepts. Yet, he still advocated exactly what that image says and seems to have a fair amount of work. Hell, he's even taught drummers you know. Think about it.

"Master your instrument, master the music, then forget that shit and just play."
-Charlie Parker

ok so i wrote a whole thing to this and my computer f-ed up.

summary:
you should be telling beginners to play within the context of the gig, but to still excel. not leave it at play the basics and you'll get paid.

SGarrett wrote:

"Master your instrument, master the music, then forget that shit and just play."
-Charlie Parker

that's what you should be telling beginners. the fact that some people enphasise simplicity soo much is giving the wrong impression.

lastly, i'm attempting to be civil to you. return the favor by leaving out the "get over it"/sarcasm BULLSHIT.








_________________
http://www.myspace.com/atrubandpage

Creativity+Speed+Technicality=Progression

I don't think anybody is advocating "simplicity" ...I think it's more about having the musicality and common sense to know what to play and when.
When you record your gigs, listen to them and ask yourself if you are making the "band" sound good or are you playing whatever you feel like to impress yourself and whoever you think you're impressing. The fact is, it would be more impressive if you can be a good musician and not a drum show-off.
If it's appropriate for the style of music, then being tastefully busy is acceptable. It's about polished skills applied with good judgement.
Dats what I think.








_________________
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step" Lao Tsu
http://www.myspace.com/whateverocks
http://www.myspace.com/frontlinetribute
http://www.myspace.com/firthoffifth2

drumur wrote:

I don't think anybody is advocating "simplicity" ...I think it's more about having the musicality and common sense to know what to play and when.
When you record your gigs, listen to them and ask yourself if you are making the "band" sound good or are you playing whatever you feel like to impress yourself and whoever you think you're impressing. The fact is, it would be more impressive if you can be a good musician and not a drum show-off.
If it's appropriate for the style of music, then being tastefully busy is acceptable. It's about polished skills applied with good judgement.
Dats what I think.

Very well said. Some people play instruments and some people are musicians.

This discussion is becoming the proverbial brick wall and I'm starting to get a splitting headache from it. Metaldrummer89, play for the song and get over yourself. In fact, you and every other "technical" snob who thinks that the number of notes played is the most important thing.








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive

SGarrett wrote:

drumur wrote:

I don't think anybody is advocating "simplicity" ...I think it's more about having the musicality and common sense to know what to play and when.
When you record your gigs, listen to them and ask yourself if you are making the "band" sound good or are you playing whatever you feel like to impress yourself and whoever you think you're impressing. The fact is, it would be more impressive if you can be a good musician and not a drum show-off.
If it's appropriate for the style of music, then being tastefully busy is acceptable. It's about polished skills applied with good judgement.
Dats what I think.

Very well said. Some people play instruments and some people are musicians.

This discussion is becoming the proverbial brick wall and I'm starting to get a splitting headache from it. Metaldrummer89, play for the song and get over yourself. In fact, you and every other "technical" snob who thinks that the number of notes played is the most important thing.

you assume far too much. i know how to play for the song, the fact that you think i am a "technical snob who thinks that the number of notes played is the most important thing", shows you don't know me (or my playing) and just how high you are on yourself. the only thing that could drive such a baseless statement could only be pure ignorance. take an advil, and get over yourself.








_________________
http://www.myspace.com/atrubandpage

Creativity+Speed+Technicality=Progression

Um, sure dude. Whatever you say. You are the one getting butt-hurt over a picture that tells the truth. You are the one sitting there saying that "simplicity am teh bahdz, ohkay?!" You are the one saying "you're giving beginners the wrong impression, you should encourage everyone to be Virgil Donati". You are the one insisting on these things. Therefore, you are the one coming off as an elitist snob...just like the other metal driven tool in this topic. Deal with it.








_________________

Dr. Rodney McKay wrote:

Well, I only know one thing and that is that flying darkness that eats energy can only be very, very bad.

http://www.MySpace.com/PageFive