I am getting complaints from my band that my drums take up too much room. we play pubs and sometimes the playing area is quite small, I strip it down as far as i can for gigging, but they like the toms and dont want me to loose another-What floor space does other peoples drum kits cover(including the stool)?

also they pile the guitar amps up in front of the drums rather than to the sides, it almost takes a fight for me to at least have the bass drum free, where do other bands have their amps and am I wrong that it muffles the sound of toms and snare being behind a wall of equipment??( we are a first time band and so are learning stagecraft as we go)

I play a 5pc. Standard size kit. Nothing major, two crashes and a ride + hats. I never get complaints.

I've actually been asked to bring a bigger kit.

Next time they ask you to bring a smaller kit, tell them to play two less strings on their guitars. Your stuff is your stuff, and they ought to be damn ECSTATIC about the fact they even have a drummer.








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13612
www.billraydrums.com
www.myspace.com/billraydrums

I play a 4 peice. snare, rack, floor, bass. hi hats, 2 crashes and a ride. I never have issues with space.

My bands puts there amps to the side of me. The only time I've had amps in front of me was when I had a horrible bass drums shifting problem.

Your kits, your kit. It's up to you. If you can stand do play with less than strip it a bit but if you feel you need everything you got set up than the bands outta luck on that one








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I play a 4pc. Snare, rack and floor toms and alot of brass. Never had any complaints. Peace on ya!








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I also play with a small kit so no complaints.

As far as the amp thing goes, you're right. It would be better if they didn't stack a whole bunch of amps in front of you (even if it's just because you don't want to hide behind a bunch of their crap! You're part of the band too!) That said, I have played with a guitar amp in front of my kit a few times, but it's always to the side of my bass drum. I don't think that changed the sound much, but in front of the bass drum probably would! (Unless you're miced!)

BillRayDrums wrote:

Next time they ask you to bring a smaller kit, tell them to play two less strings on their guitars. Your stuff is your stuff, and they ought to be damn ECSTATIC about the fact they even have a drummer.

+100

My old band said the same thing to me. They didn't ask, they TOLD me to cut down my set. It was a 5 piece, on a Pearl DR-80 rack, which took up NO MORE ROOM than a 5 piece without a rack. Racks actually keep them nice and neat and in one area only. I told them; "hey, bring a practice amp to a show and I'll come with a practice pad and sticks." They thought I was joking, until I played a joke on them showing up to a "big" show with only sticks and a practice pad with no drums in my car. They were freaking out. It was a fun joke because I kept telling them they wanted me to scale down so I scaled down. I actually showed her how to set my drums up quickly, which she did during all this arguing. So when it was time to play they were LOSING IT! I couldn't stop laughing. Little did they know, my gf at the time had the drums in her Explorer behind the venue and had them set up right outside the door for me.

They never messed with me again.








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BillRayDrums wrote:

I play a 5pc. Standard size kit. Nothing major, two crashes and a ride + hats. I never get complaints.

I've actually been asked to bring a bigger kit.

Next time they ask you to bring a smaller kit, tell them to play two less strings on their guitars. Your stuff is your stuff, and they ought to be damn ECSTATIC about the fact they even have a drummer.

i actually play a 6 peice,(snare, rack, two floor, and a bass) and i dont take up hardly any space!
seriously if these guys tell you to size down your kit, tell em ta screw off! that kit is your baby! nobody! i mean NOBODY tells a drummer ta size down his kit! k so maybe im flyin off the handel a little lol. but its easy to keep it small and keep your whole set. and they're being complete retards if they're puttin the amps infront of your kit!
what style do you play?

I quite like the idea of a small kit for certain situations.

You should be playing with what's comfortable for you, and if you're perfectly comfortable playing a five piece kit, that's nothing to do with them. Hell, they should be thankful you're not one of those drummers who thinks he can just burst onto the music scene ripping up 10 drums and 15 cymbals before you're ready for them.

Seriously, next time they tell you that, tell them to shove it. I've had problems like this with one of the guys in my band before, trying to tell me how I should be doing things like that. It's especially bad because chances are they don't know sod all about drumming (I know my guy doesn't but pretends he does), and don't realize how much it messes with your routine if you eliminate part of your usual gear. I think it was mentioned before, but yeah, tell them that for every drum or cymbal you take out, they remove one of their strings or keys each, it's only fair.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the drummer's gear is his own business.








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This could only be more awesome if it had tits and was on fire.

Join a metal band!

Lately, I've been getting yelled at for going with a one rack/two floors, haha.

Depending on the show, my kit goes from a 5 pcs kit, snare, 1 rack tom, 1 bass, 2 floors, to just a snare and bass set-up. Cymbals also change with show. When the whole kit is set up it's has 1 set of hats, 1 ride, 2 crashes, 2 splashes, and 1 china. On the smaller set up, I usually use the hats and the larger crash as a crash/ride.

The whole point is it's your kit and your the musician that has to sit behind it. If you think they a 7 pcs set up for you, than that's your choice. I would find it disrespectful if someone put their gear in front of mine. I understand space is limited, but you guys are a group and should act like one.








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SilverFox HR Sticks, Medicine Man rebuilt PDP Snares, PDP Drums, Zildjian, Meinl, Po Boy Cymbals, DW and Pearl Hardware and pedals

DrumsPlus wrote:

Depending on the show, my kit goes from a 5 pcs kit, snare, 1 rack tom, 1 bass, 2 floors, to just a snare and bass set-up. Cymbals also change with show. When the whole kit is set up it's has 1 set of hats, 1 ride, 2 crashes, 2 splashes, and 1 china. On the smaller set up, I usually use the hats and the larger crash as a crash/ride.

The whole point is it's your kit and your the musician that has to sit behind it. If you think they a 7 pcs set up for you, than that's your choice. I would find it disrespectful if someone put their gear in front of mine. I understand space is limited, but you guys are a group and should act like one.

+1. Forgot about the amps in front of your kit thing. That to me is total disrespect, in keeping with the whole 'no one cares about the drummer' school of thought.

Add that to them trying to control your setup, it seems like they consider a drummer just a tool, not a bandmate. Drummer's the most important member of the band! Don't take that bollocks from any band you're in.








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This could only be more awesome if it had tits and was on fire.

i play a 6 peice 1 rack 2 floor, 2 basses, and a snare and hats a ride and 2 crashes. and i have no problem with room and ya amps are supposed to be cleared enough out the way for people standing in front of the stage can see your whole kit.








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tama hardware
remo heads
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I play a 6 piece with 10 cymbals. and a gibraltar rack. 3 rack toms 1 floor.
2 splashes
3 crashes
2 chinas
2 hihats
ride

If the stage is small my bandmates rights put theyre shit on the far corners of the stage or on the floor, or they'll take the stage, and i'll set up right in front of the stage on the floor.








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I play a 4 or 5 pc (kick, 1 rack, snare, 1 or 2 floors).

I take up whatever room I need to in order to not be cramped up against the wall too much (I've got pretty long legs).

Never been asked to pare back my kit or "make it take up less space".

Guitar and bass amps are set up to the side. If they're not mic'd, how else would one hear what they're playing?

I could understand them making noise if you brought 8 toms, 2 floors, 2 bass drums and 15 cymbals for a small gig with limited stage space, but a 5 pc? c'mon! they're being unrealistic.








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www.myspace.com/alanselectronicmuse

what style do I play?? Modern rock covers, greenday,kooks,nirvana QOTSA etc. And my kit does not sound over sized from what you are all saying, gibralter rack so its neater than stands, 3 rack toms 3 crashes and a ride. I will use all your comments to stregthen my argument. and get to be seen for once!!

for me, not being behind the guitar amps has more to do with being able to balance with the guitar and bass in an unmic'd situation than being seen. seriously, how can one balance with a speaker faced away from you?








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www.myspace.com/alanselectronicmuse

It seems like there never is a stage big enough for a full band at most clubs!
In one band I playing, there are 3 guitars and bass, so I do often end up with a guitar amp in front of the bass drum. It's a little annoying, but what is important is the sound in front of the stage, not necessarily the arrangement of the gear on stage. As long as the kick is miked, it's fine.

I feel after a while of playing a bigger set it will be cool to go back and play on something smaller. i found it;s nice having a big kit because ou have lots of options however I feared being ridiculed for bringing a drum or cymbal to a gig and setting it up but never actually hitting it! I like playing a smaller kit now (5piece) feels very organic and what drums are all about there arn;t many songs that require a bigger kit.

I play four, five, six, seven, even eight drums. I bring what's needed (by me). The hire who they like.

Not sure, but I think this makes me an asshole... My last band made me scale down for precisely no reason, so to a show I brought 1 snare, 1 floor tom, 1 bass drum, and 1 pair of hihats, and 1 Ozone crash. I put everything so cramped together I didnt have to move my elbows the whole show. I made a decision a long time ago to stand out no matter what. I actually had fun being the drummer who brought the "toy kit." I still rocked the house! Did the drum parts sound repetitive?? I'm sure they did, but no one noticed but me... and the rest of the band...

Next time the singer asked me to add a tom, crash, and ride... I told him if thats what he wants, there's 500 other drummers in San Diego who can do that for him, but I wasnt one of them...

My drums are an artistic statement in and of themselves. If I'm not being paid (hired) to play, I'll bring whatever the hell I want to.








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Right now, I'm crazy. Someday, I hope to be eccentric. The difference between crazy and eccentic is about $2 million dollars.

I agree with everyone here. YOU are the drummer and your kit is your instrument, regardless of the size and configuration. Som bass players play a 4 string, some a 5 string, and still some a 6 string, that is their instrument. When they took you as their drummer, they took the whatever size adn configuration of your kit, as that is an extension of you. PERIOD. As far as staking the amps inf ront of the drums... Try putting your drums in front of the amps and see how THEY like that!! A band is a unit, you all work together to make a great show. The drummer is just not the time keepr anymore, but an instrument in the making of music.

I have a large set and my band knew that when they accepted me as their drummer. They have never complained about helping me load in/out for shows as they took my kit on when they took me on as their drummer.

Good luck...








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Keith Wishon - Drummer for SiK
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Hey Multi, that is one SICK kit! Do you have your basses tuned differently?








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Drummers NEVER tell guitarist which pedals they should or shouldn't bring, nor do we tell them what amp setup to use. You are a drummer with your own kit, which is a rare commodity...it's much easier to replace a guitarist (everybody plays guitar!). You set your kit up however you damn well please, and tell them if they don't like it to go find another drummer with a set. Also, those amps move to the side...no discussion!

I play classic to modern/alternative rock on a 5-7 piece depending on the gig. 2 crashes, ride, splash, and highhats. I have played in a few bars where I was jammed into the back corner of the building, with a small triangle-shape area to setup in and had to crawl/climb to get in. I had no problem making it work...and the amps were to the side!!! Sometimes the bass player and amp sets up behind me!

You're the drummer! The most important piece of that band! I'm done ranting

I play a 4 piece in a metal band...

1 rack
1 floor
1 kick drum
snare

bout 9 cymbals.
doesn't take up to much room.

but if you need all the stuff on your kit in order to be able to perform at your best. u should tell your band mates where to go....haha.

yeah i reckon having all the amps etc.. in front of the drums will just drown you out....Won't allow the drums to breathe!

Multibomber wrote:

Not sure, but I think this makes me an asshole... My last band made me scale down for precisely no reason, so to a show I brought 1 snare, 1 floor tom, 1 bass drum, and 1 pair of hihats, and 1 Ozone crash. I put everything so cramped together I didnt have to move my elbows the whole show. I made a decision a long time ago to stand out no matter what. I actually had fun being the drummer who brought the "toy kit." I still rocked the house! Did the drum parts sound repetitive?? I'm sure they did, but no one noticed but me... and the rest of the band...

Next time the singer asked me to add a tom, crash, and ride... I told him if thats what he wants, there's 500 other drummers in San Diego who can do that for him, but I wasnt one of them...

My drums are an artistic statement in and of themselves. If I'm not being paid (hired) to play, I'll bring whatever the hell I want to.

If that makes you an asshole then I must be the anti-christ. I have a 12 piece kit; you have me beat by two cymbals though.

The left bass drum is an 18x22 and the right bd is a 16x22. I use the dbl pedal on the right bd for evenness when doing straight beats and such, and use the left one for hand/foot combos. Having 2 diff sized bds for these combos makes them sound MUCH more interesting IMO, and when you just play straight dbl bass with them you get that Tool "Aenima" / "Schism" effect.

TAMADRUMMER666

You ARE the antichrist!! Fantastic! As far as cymbals, what can I say... I like dirty effects. Only 2 of my cymbals are normal crashes.








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Right now, I'm crazy. Someday, I hope to be eccentric. The difference between crazy and eccentic is about $2 million dollars.

If you big kit guy's can be bothered to haul around all that crap yourself then good luck to you. I must say though that I have a local venue that holds around 50-60 people max. The stage is small and the P.A is not great but adequate with an in house engineer. I went down there one night and there was a middle aged 3 piece blues band playing. They were great but the drummer had this big white monolith set up around him, and I've got to say my friends and I thought he looked like a bit of a jerk. It's all about scale. If he had a tidy little kit it would if looked far cooler on that stage. At the end of the night I watched him climbing up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down the back stairs to his car. He definitely did not look cool.
Performance is all about being cool. I know we all have different ideas about that, but I don't believe we should overun a stage with a Drumkit.
As a footnote I did a jazz gig at a House party last week. I took my new Traps kit knowing I was setting up in a Lounge room. Ok the sound isn't exactly a beautiful Vintage, but everybody loved them. They weren't too loud, the musicians around me had enough room to work and I had an easy load out. I had more positive comments on that kit that any other kit I've used. Just my point of view.








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!

Steaky wrote:

If you big kit guy's can be bothered to haul around all that crap yourself then good luck to you. I must say though that I have a local venue that holds around 50-60 people max. The stage is small and the P.A is not great but adequate with an in house engineer. I went down there one night and there was a middle aged 3 piece blues band playing. They were great but the drummer had this big white monolith set up around him, and I've got to say my friends and I thought he looked like a bit of a jerk. It's all about scale. If he had a tidy little kit it would if looked far cooler on that stage. At the end of the night I watched him climbing up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down the back stairs to his car. He definitely did not look cool.
Performance is all about being cool. I know we all have different ideas about that, but I don't believe we should overun a stage with a Drumkit.
As a footnote I did a jazz gig at a House party last week. I took my new Traps kit knowing I was setting up in a Lounge room. Ok the sound isn't exactly a beautiful Vintage, but everybody loved them. They weren't too loud, the musicians around me had enough room to work and I had an easy load out. I had more positive comments on that kit that any other kit I've used. Just my point of view.

I disagree








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xdoseonex wrote:

Steaky wrote:

If you big kit guy's can be bothered to haul around all that crap yourself then good luck to you. I must say though that I have a local venue that holds around 50-60 people max. The stage is small and the P.A is not great but adequate with an in house engineer. I went down there one night and there was a middle aged 3 piece blues band playing. They were great but the drummer had this big white monolith set up around him, and I've got to say my friends and I thought he looked like a bit of a jerk. It's all about scale. If he had a tidy little kit it would if looked far cooler on that stage. At the end of the night I watched him climbing up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down the back stairs to his car. He definitely did not look cool.
Performance is all about being cool. I know we all have different ideas about that, but I don't believe we should overun a stage with a Drumkit.
As a footnote I did a jazz gig at a House party last week. I took my new Traps kit knowing I was setting up in a Lounge room. Ok the sound isn't exactly a beautiful Vintage, but everybody loved them. They weren't too loud, the musicians around me had enough room to work and I had an easy load out. I had more positive comments on that kit that any other kit I've used. Just my point of view.

I disagree

+1

Hey I'm not against big kit's when it's needed. I love it. I have a kit I use on tour with 24" 13"16"18" plus 2 snares, and 6 cymbals inc hats. I don't carry it around I have a tech for that. I have enough drums to put up 10,12,13 racks if I needed the run down around the toms. In fact my DW kit alone has 20, 22, 24" kiks, 10,12,13" toms and 14"16"18" floors plus 14x7, 14x5, and 13x3 snares. I could add a side salad of my latin and electronic percussion to that. I'm looking out to make my Vista kit into a double bass set up at some point just for fun at home. I'm just all for getting the scale right.
I think a lot of it is just politics. I've lost count of the times I've heard "that guy was amazing, he did so much with that little kit! It was a lovely little kit" (not talking about myself) from friends and punters. I have also heard from fellow Muso's "he's got all those fucking Drums!" quite a few times. Why piss your band mates off and make the band play badly because nobody's happy, what with that extra china you stuck up so the Bass player has to stand up the arse of the lead singer who can't move at all to express the song he's singing to the audience? It's a team game, all band members have a responsibility to each other to make the band the very best it can be. Our job is to make that band sound and feel good as possible, and it helps to look cool and not all cramped up together at the expense of a 15 piece Drum kit. You can surly work out the min and max to make you sound on point for any occasion. But hey it's your choice, and it's just my point of view, but that point of veiw seems to of done me well.

On the point of the original question, I'm 6'1" and my inside leg is 32". When I set up my stool has to be a certain distance from the kik or I can't get on the kit. If my backs to a wall then my stool needs to be a certain distance away so I don't bang my elbows. I find that I can still fit 2 floor toms in the same space.








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!

I got a 6 piece and 6 cymbals. You should just tell them to set their amps against the walls so they have more room.








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DRummer BOy Jeff

for shows i used a 8 cymbal, 6-piece for a while. got a rack and raised it to 12 cymbals. space has never been a big issue though. we play very few shows, and only at the bigger venues.








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http://www.myspace.com/atrubandpage

Creativity+Speed+Technicality=Progression

Interesting topic. A good topic as well for the gigging drummer.

To the original poster. If you are playing a 5 piece; 2 rack and 1 floor, you really can't scale down much smaller space wise.

Nobody likes being "told" what to do...especially by a non drummer. However, being a "professional" and a "team" player can go a long way towards having a successful career and being the guy who gets the call. My ideal setup is a seven piece; 3 rack, 1 floor and a side snare/timbale...I also have a 2 floor setup.

Reality is this, there are stage size restrictions!!! Its your job to do what is best for the band! Do you really expect the rest of the band to be up each others ass or worse yet off stage so you can set up your precious monster kit and 500 cymbals? To the guy who setup his kit on the dance floor in front of the stage. I play a club weekly that often crams 300-400 people into a place that has a capacity of 200. If I'd pull a stunt like that, my band would be fired and he would call me an idiot. You know what??? He would be absolutely right. At that one club alone we make over 30k a year. My guitar player sets his amp in front of my kit (not the kick), the keyboard player is right on top of me and blocks the crowd view from stage left. Our bassist and other guitar player are very tight on stage right and I have to crawl over my monitor and tilt a cymbal stand just to get behind my scaled back 5 piece kit. We effin kill in that place and the crowd can't tell if my kit is scaled back or not cause I'm still kicking it with what I got.

That's reality and real-world experience. If you can't play on a 4 or 5 piece kit and pull it off, then you had better take a good hard look at your playing or forget playing some GREAT high paying clubs that have small stages.

I guess I was really struck by the arrogance and selfcentered posts on this thread and thought a different viewpoint would offer a better perspective on the situation.

2 cents.

~Steve








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nightcrawler_steve wrote:

Interesting topic. A good topic as well for the gigging drummer.

To the original poster. If you are playing a 5 piece; 2 rack and 1 floor, you really can't scale down much smaller space wise.

Nobody likes being "told" what to do...especially by a non drummer. However, being a "professional" and a "team" player can go a long way towards having a successful career and being the guy who gets the call. My ideal setup is a seven piece; 3 rack, 1 floor and a side snare/timbale...I also have a 2 floor setup.

Reality is this, there are stage size restrictions!!! Its your job to do what is best for the band! Do you really expect the rest of the band to be up each others ass or worse yet off stage so you can set up your precious monster kit and 500 cymbals? To the guy who setup his kit on the dance floor in front of the stage. I play a club weekly that often crams 300-400 people into a place that has a capacity of 200. If I'd pull a stunt like that, my band would be fired and he would call me an idiot. You know what??? He would be absolutely right. At that one club alone we make over 30k a year. My guitar player sets his amp in front of my kit (not the kick), the keyboard player is right on top of me and blocks the crowd view from stage left. Our bassist and other guitar player are very tight on stage right and I have to crawl over my monitor and tilt a cymbal stand just to get behind my scaled back 5 piece kit. We effin kill in that place and the crowd can't tell if my kit is scaled back or not cause I'm still kicking it with what I got.

That's reality and real-world experience. If you can't play on a 4 or 5 piece kit and pull it off, then you had better take a good hard look at your playing or forget playing some GREAT high paying clubs that have small stages.

I guess I was really struck by the arrogance and selfcentered posts on this thread and thought a different viewpoint would offer a better perspective on the situation.

2 cents.

~Steve

If i setup on the floor in front of the stage its because its acceptable for the venue were playing. theyre are restrictions on everything.








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Dose...

I understand every playing situation is different. I'm sorry I singled you out, I'm posting from an iPhone and I can't open multiple pages to go back and see who said what. I guess I would question why you set up in front of the band instead of maybe scaling back to fit on stage. Am I missing something? Worse case scenario if the stage is too small for the entire band, why wouldn't you be on stage and the band on the floor?

Anyway, not trying to pick on you. My general statement is sometimes you have to do what's best for the band because stages can be small. Its kind of rude to set up a big monster kit if you are able to scale it back. I'm by no means saying its fun to do, I just feel professionalim should rule the day. Very, very few drummers are the focus of the band. "Most" audience people could give a damn how big your drumset is or who makes it. They just want to shake their ass, bang their head or be entertained.

Wasn't trying to dis you, if you feel I did, Im sorry.

~Steve








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Was going to say something pertinent, but kinda got sidetracked.

Steve knows what's up.








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13612
www.billraydrums.com
www.myspace.com/billraydrums

I think steve said so eloquently what I was trying to say. To Xdose, I'm trying to imagine you set up in front of the stage. How the hell does that work? Did you have your back to the Band? it can't of been ideal.
Anyway I've just come home from a tight gig as it happens and I was thinking of this post. I took my Ludwig Downbeat (20, 12, 14) as it was a Jazz gig with 3 cyms and a pair of hats. There were 6 muso's booked as it turned out, I new them all from gigging around the Jazz scene. I had to laugh to myself when I arrived as they had left me 2ft square to set up on! After some quick negotiations they moved apart to let me in. I was ready to leave out the 19"sizzle on my right hand side but as it turned out we had more than enough room. It was a great gig and crowd loved it.








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!

Right , I think you guys have sorted the answer out for me. My five piece kit is not excessive, and as I use a rack and no other stands then if they ask if I can go smaller I will confidently say no. I am still quite new and I feel comfortable on my kit as it is and we will sound better if we leave it as it is. We measure up the pubs before we go anyway and know how much room we have. Obviously on realy tiny stages we all will have to stand where we can and make the best of a bad job, but wherever there is room I will make a stand and ask that the amps are not in front of the drums. I dont have an ego, I dont care about being seen at all, I just care that the drums sound the best they can-- I dont use a mic yet, our venues are much too small-- I am in a different league to you guys. This is our first band, and we are all still learning whats what.

Hey Grannydrums...

I've played a fair few shows in London and the venues can be horrendously cramped. As Steve said you can't really downsize much more than a 5 piece with 2 racks.

I'm playing 93 Feet East tonigt and I've been pre-warned kit might be a bit of state. I'm 99.9% certain it won't have the 2 floors I usually play, but sometimes you have to take it on the chin and just give it some. That's why it pays to be adept on a small kit, so you can go into a situation with a really basic kit and still play well.

A note on your non-micing... if you tune your drums up a little and they will carry further, which means from an audience point of view they won't just be a dead thud and will sound a lot better than a low rock tuning.

Good luck with the band, hope it all goes well!








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RobCrisp.co.uk

hey rob, sounds like you are doing an original gig, i have seen some of the kits they provide--that would be a nightmare--not just the size of the kit but I have never played with a hi hat at the side--mine is in the middle --good job my image is not right for me to be in an originals band!!

grannydrums wrote:

hey rob, sounds like you are doing an original gig, i have seen some of the kits they provide--that would be a nightmare--not just the size of the kit but I have never played with a hi hat at the side--mine is in the middle --good job my image is not right for me to be in an originals band!!

Ahhh the symetrical layout idea? I think M (forum member) who has a pretty cool set up with hats in the middle!








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RobCrisp.co.uk

yes -- whoever designed layouts with hats to the side was obviously flat chested, i cannot cross my arms without curving my back