See, this is why I think you are being rediculous. Even the Chrome Firecraker snares are $120, the JJ snare is only $100 more.
Kids will spend twice that much for a pair of shoes that cost $15 to make

I decided to take a trip down to my local Tama Dealer this afternoon and have a go at the Mike Portnoy Melody Master Snare Drums.

First things first, to even compare the quality between the 12" Portnoy and the 13" JJ is laughable! From across the room you can tell the Tama is a superior product in terms of fit and finish.

Second, to compare a rolled steel drum with a painted shell to a black chrome hand hammered drum isn't really making a fair comparison either. And by the way, the steel on th Tama is probably 2-3X as thick as the JJ.

Last, the three way throw-off is pretty cool, and works very well. I have four position throw-offs on my Trick snare drum, and I like that feature quite a bit.

So, for 299.00 out the door I can have a 5x12 with diecast hoops, a threeway throw-off and a hammered black crome HEAVY steel shell... A Bargain...

For $269.00 I can have a thin steel drum with nothing special about it but the graffitti...

For a moment lets suspend that we even KNOW who has a signature on the drum, and judge these at face value...

The TAMA... hands down winner.

Translation... I can tune a 75.00 chinese chrome plated cheapie to sound exactly like the JJ... I don't think I have the skills to say the same thing about the Portnoy, the drum is really quite nice for the money.

why don't we just settle this at th Drum Road Trip during the snare drum olympics. Somebody please bring a JJ (or maybe I'll borrow one from the House Of Guitars) and we'll add the JJ to the line-up and see how it goes. It will be blind testing, so nobody will know what drum they are listening to... if the JJ does better than a chinese chromie, I'll eat my words. If it doesn't, you eat yours... deal?








_________________

zen_drummer wrote:

I decided to take a trip down to my local Tama Dealer this afternoon and have a go at the Mike Portnoy Melody Master Snare Drums.

First things first, to even compare the quality between the 12" Portnoy and the 13" JJ is laughable! From across the room you can tell the Tama is a superior product in terms of fit and finish.

Second, to compare a rolled steel drum with a painted shell to a black chrome hand hammered drum isn't really making a fair comparison either. And by the way, the steel on th Tama is probably 2-3X as thick as the JJ.

Last, the three way throw-off is pretty cool, and works very well. I have four position throw-offs on my Trick snare drum, and I like that feature quite a bit.

So, for 299.00 out the door I can have a 5x12 with diecast hoops, a threeway throw-off and a hammered black crome HEAVY steel shell... A Bargain...

For $269.00 I can have a thin steel drum with nothing special about it but the graffitti...

For a moment lets suspend that we even KNOW who has a signature on the drum, and judge these at face value...

The TAMA... hands down winner.

Translation... I can tune a 75.00 chinese chrome plated cheapie to sound exactly like the JJ... I don't think I have the skills to say the same thing about the Portnoy, the drum is really quite nice for the money.

why don't we just settle this at th Drum Road Trip during the snare drum olympics. Somebody please bring a JJ (or maybe I'll borrow one from the House Of Guitars) and we'll add the JJ to the line-up and see how it goes. It will be blind testing, so nobody will know what drum they are listening to... if the JJ does better than a chinese chromie, I'll eat my words. If it doesn't, you eat yours... deal?

hahaha I think we got ourselves a good ol' fashioned fight in the midst








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Mapex/Pearl/Meinl/Remo/Pro-Mark/Axis used and abused!! \m/

drummerduba wrote:

hahaha I think we got ourselves a good ol' fashioned fight in the midst

It's not a fight...

In the scientific community it's called "proof of concept".

I made a point about a drum that is insanely overpriced for it's performance and I get accused of being a JJ basher, because JJ Bashing is "so popular" these days. Well, I don't like being accused of being a JJ basher because I'm not.

I made a claim in which I believe, and I'm willing to put it to the test.

Actions speak louder than words.








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I wasn't debating snare drum sound, I was debating economics. You have a problem with Pearl selling what you believe to be an overpriced drum to willing and happy customers only because they are too unintelligent to make an informed choice. I say this is how marketing works; to enhance a product's perceived value.

Your experiment sounds fun, but the data you should be collecting is the resale cost vs. production cost so we can compare profit margin, my point is not based on how the drum sounds (which after all, is still subject to opinion)

Empyrean Drums wrote:

I wasn't debating snare drum sound, I was debating economics. You have a problem with Pearl selling what you believe to be an overpriced drum to willing and happy customers only because they are too unintelligent to make an informed choice. I say this is how marketing works; to enhance a product's perceived value.

Your experiment sounds fun, but the data you should be collecting is the resale cost vs. production cost so we can compare profit margin, my point is not based on how the drum sounds (which after all, is still subject to opinion)

i say production cost was $50 at the most.








_________________
PDP, Tama, and Pearl Drums
DW, Pearl, and Gibraltar Hardware
Sabian, Zildjian, and Saluda Cymbals

www.myspace.com/EOTEband

Empyrean Drums wrote:

I wasn't debating snare drum sound, I was debating economics. You have a problem with Pearl selling what you believe to be an overpriced drum to willing and happy customers only because they are too unintelligent to make an informed choice. I say this is how marketing works; to enhance a product's perceived value.

Your experiment sounds fun, but the data you should be collecting is the resale cost vs. production cost so we can compare profit margin, my point is not based on how the drum sounds (which after all, is still subject to opinion)

I'm debating sound AND economics, but that's OK.

So if I sell a hand full of regular old beans, but I call them "Magic beans", to a willing and happy customer that is too unintelligent to make an informed choice, that would be OK? Nah... it's a crime, that I believe is called "Bunko" if I remember the old Dragnet Shows correctly.

There is a fine line between marketing and taking advantage of people, I'm sure that line moves from place to place as we compare endeavors, but the line still exists.








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zen_drummer wrote:

I'm debating sound AND economics, but that's OK.

So if I sell a hand full of regular old beans, but I call them "Magic beans", to a willing and happy customer that is too unintelligent to make an informed choice, that would be OK? Nah... it's a crime, that I believe is called "Bunko" if I remember the old Dragnet Shows correctly.

There is a fine line between marketing and taking advantage of people, I'm sure that line moves from place to place as we compare endeavors, but the line still exists.

Just being clear on what my point is, I'm not advocating that it sounds great or that anyone buy it. I try not to pay full price for anything because I think there is always a better deal.
I just don't see any deception. They're advertizing a 14"x6.5"x1mm steel drum with Slipknot graffiti and that's what you get--regular beans with tribal Ss.
It's not like they say it's handmade bell brass and you open up the box and it's a section of a 30 gallon drum with lugs riveted to it.

Empyrean Drums wrote:

a 14"x6.5"x1mm steel drum

i thought it was 13x7.








_________________
PDP, Tama, and Pearl Drums
DW, Pearl, and Gibraltar Hardware
Sabian, Zildjian, and Saluda Cymbals

www.myspace.com/EOTEband

oops my bad...

13x6.5

we was both somewhat right and wrong.








_________________
PDP, Tama, and Pearl Drums
DW, Pearl, and Gibraltar Hardware
Sabian, Zildjian, and Saluda Cymbals

www.myspace.com/EOTEband

i have a joey snare and i got it like 1 year ago and i was frothing on it but i dunno aye its just another snare as ive become more and more into diffrent styles and done my reserch on drums it really isnt as good as pearl crack it up to be and ive had countless thoughts of painting it that ''s'' is prity lame ahaha although i used to praise slipknot and joey theres way better things in music and drumming