Hey I'm really interested in your comments on the differences between Constantinople and Artisan rides. I'm looking into building a set-up for mainly a rustic Jazz sound. How do these cymbals stand up away from the shop floor? Do they age well? Which type blends better with that acoustic sound of a Jazz trio or quartet, and importantly which type performs best in the studio. These are the Rolls Royce of cymbals and as a result are too expensive just to buy as a simple punt. Comments of "go with the best sound for you" are not required, I'm looking for field reports, as I believe the cymbals come into their own when played out. Oh and if I could ask you focus only on these Models please (not Bosphorus and Istanbul for instance) that would be great.
Many thanks








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i'm looking for answers to the same question. also looking to build a traditional jazz setup for trio/quarter performances. what cymbals should i buy?

Nehe555 wrote:

i'm looking for answers to the same question. also looking to build a traditional jazz setup for trio/quarter performances. what cymbals should i buy?

I suggest neither the Constantinoples or Artisans, but going with Dream Bliss rides. I'm biases as I have two Dream Bliss plates. Constantinoples and Artisans are, in my opinion, overpriced, and Dream Blisses stand up to both companies in sound, quality and affordability.
Even when not compared to Dream Blisses, I think that Constantinoples and Artisans are way over priced. Big name recognition, to me, is irrelevant, especially if all three companies make cymbals that are of the same quality.








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Steaky-
... How do these cymbals stand up away from the shop floor?- very well

... Do they age well?- yes, as much as any other cymbal ages

... Which type blends better with that acoustic sound of a Jazz trio or quartet- either one

... and importantly which type performs best in the studio- either one

... These are the Rolls Royce of cymbals- you're very kind to Zildjian and Sabian

... and as a result are too expensive just to buy as a simple punt- very true








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Thanks for your post but I am focusing on these specific brands and models. I'm sure Dream Bliss plates are great but I'm not interested with them at this point. I'm looking for deeper comments on the sonic virtues and the contasting effects of these Zil's and Sabs directly related to acoustic based Jazz music. Which type have our Jazz drumming colleagues out there found more applicable, musical, easier to control and down right authentic?
This should also be way and above the Sabian rule and zildjian suck routine, more about colours and sounds if you know what I mean.








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!

Steaky- check my second reply. The first reply was directed to Nehe555, and that's why I mentioned Dream Blisses in that reply. Per my second reply, I don't see/hear much of a difference between the Constantinoples or Artisans- not much of a difference in applicability, musicality, control or authenticity. Both will do the job you're looking to do. I think that your biggest decision will be which weight and size will work best.

Steaky wrote:

Thanks for your post but I am focusing on these specific brands and models. I'm sure Dream Bliss plates are great but I'm not interested with them at this point. I'm looking for deeper comments on the sonic virtues and the contasting effects of these Zil's and Sabs directly related to acoustic based Jazz music. Which type have our Jazz drumming colleagues out there found more applicable, musical, easier to control and down right authentic?
This should also be way and above the Sabian rule and zildjian suck routine, more about colours and sounds if you know what I mean.

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activities and collaborators:
http://www.myspace.com/bendingthemap>
http://www.myspace.com/christopherabruce
http://www.myspace.com/raycoyleproject
http://www.spacebrewer.com

I know either will do the job. To me having done some more research the Artisans are higher and clearer pitched where the Cons are lower and have more of a trashy undertone. I've noticed that Artisans are thicker than Con's. But that's just my limited knowledge of what I've tried out. Is there more to the story. Come on, I need to know more than "either". I know the decision is down to me bla bla. Drummers who play in this style are notoriously fussy with sound, so I was hoping for someone to share a little bit of their experience.








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Well, I know you're probably going to dislike my answer, but it really depends. There are quite a few different varieties in the Z. K. Constantinople line and even within the same description, the sounds can be drastically different. I would recommend heading over to cymbalsonly.com to listen to the soundfiles of the K Cons that Tony's got up. He also lists the gram weights so you can get an idea of how different weights contribute to the sounds of different sized pies.

He may have an Artisan or 2 up there. IMHO, and this is just mine, the Artisan's are nice, but certainly not the creme de la creme of jazz pies. Actually, neither are the K Cons. Both are insanely overpriced for cymbals that go through machine hammering. I generally don't particularly care for the stick on Artisans. They are a bit too pingy as opposed to a nice "tah" sound that a good jazz pie will have. One of the factors is the weight distribution. The bells are more integrated, which some people prefer.

I'm sorry that you've limited yourself to these pies. As Christopher Bruce pointed out, there are other alternatives which are more reasonably priced, even if it's not the Dream Bliss pies. For the record, I'm a fan of the Dreams. Real nice cymbals, especially for the money. Other brands of fantastic jazz cymbals would be Istanbul (Agops) and Bosphorus and both are less expensive than the Z's or Sab's AND they are ALL cast and hand hammered in Turkey AND they sound fantastic.

As far as the Rolls Royce of cymbals, I would say not in a million years. Not including vintage pies (Isty K's, 602's, etc.) as long as Roberto Spizzichino walks this earth and is making cymbals, his product would be the best, IMHO. I would also like to give props to Steve Hubback, Mike Skiba, Johan VDS, and even Matt Bettis. All of these cats have made some incredible contributions, and still do, to the world of bronze.








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No I like it Rufus! And thank you. I still rate these as Rolls Royces, Roberta Spizzichino is more like the Buggatti Veyron of the Cymbal world! That's a whole different game. Yes I would love to fly across the world just to hang out with him and commission a totally unique sound. But right now needs must and I need the low down on these (in contrast) mass produced babies.
So back to the subject, I agree with your comments on the Art's, I find them a bit pingy too, but I thought it was just me. I have found the Z far easier to contain......... By the way I thought Art's were hammered by hand. I believe Sabian have a small team dedicated to them and they only make a few per day. That was told to me by the UK Sabian AnR guy (Jerome Marcus). They obviously have to find an alternative sound already covered by Constantinople, but is it the right one? Hmmmm








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!

It's funny...I almost used the Veyron analogy but some people get uptight and INSIST it's not the best, haha!

You may be right about the Artisan's actually being hand hammered, but I'm really not sure. As you probably already have experienced, with the K Cons, there can be A LOT of variation between cymbals in the same line. I was at the Sam Ash in Times Square a couple of years ago and they had about 30 K Cons in stock. I took my stick to all of them, and while some of them were real gems, there was some drastic variations between the pies. Their heavier models, like the medium or the high bell dry, are usually pretty easy to control and I think they are relatively versatile and when you get a good one, they break in quite well.

If I had to choose, based on my experience, the K Cons would be the better buy. They hold their value better than the Artisans. On a tangent, the Sabian Calhoun Ambient ride is WAY nicer than any Artisan I've ever heard. If you ever get a chance to play one, please do...I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It's unlathed but buffed so it has a brilliant finish. It's a 21 and they generally weigh around 2000 grams. I heard of some serious cats who KNOW their pies that actually thought that the Ambient sounded like a good old K from the audience. Talk about a compliment!

No matter how you slice it man, I think that if you take the time to find a GOOD one, one that really speaks to you, you're going to be happy with it in the long run. Good luck.








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The Veyron is the fastest road car in history! And will set you back almost a £1,000,000!!!! They are also super limited edition(well there's not many people around to afford one).
Thanks for your advice Rufus. I will check out a Calhoun Ambient








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You can own the greatest drum ever made, but it won't change how well you can play it!