i know the drummer from queens of the stone age recorded the cymbals and drums separately on their first album, as in he only played the drums one take then only played the cymbals next, is that what u guys are talking about with the recording separately?








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I see a lot of mixed feelings here. I personally dont see much of a problem with the set up being recorded. Any drum set being recorded is gonna have
some kind of issues, especially considering its a human playing it. But that is what makes a live drummer better than having a drum machine. The human factor.

In my opinion, it really boils down to budget. If you have tons of studio time to try different mic positions, drum tunings, track cleaning, adding trigger sounds and
even the dreaded pro tools repositioning of that snare hit that was a little late, then the kit size doesn't really matter at all.

Now, on the other hand, if a small budget is the case, keeping everything simple should be the approach. Why waste hours of time trying to isolate a snare drum or crash
cymbal if your trying to track in a very limited amount time.

Alot of this depends on your experience level also. Any of us who have recorded (at home, short demo's to full albums), know what works for the job at hand. Their is no sense
in making anything more complicated than it needs to be.

As far as tracking cymbals separate from the drums. I have gone back and tracked a cymbal roll with mallets, but I couldn't imagine how much time it would take to
record the cymbals completely separate from the drums. Definitely talking big label recording here.

Finally, recording drums is alot like playing live, the more you do it, the more comfortable and better you get at it.








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SHOGUNWARRIOR32 wrote:

I'm kinda havin a problem with these automatic conclusions of "big kit = bleed" or "big kit = less concentration on the music" come on guys.. doesn't it really depend on the engineer, studio, micing technique, etc.? ... hasn't Portnoy, Peart or even Bozzio proven that?

Just like an artist using whatever paint he needs for his painting..take whatever drums, hihats, cymbals you want to use.. if there's bleed ..don't take it out on the drums...find another engineer.

Just my 2 cents.

Shogun

Yes, it depends on quite a few factors, but Portnoy, Peart, or Bozzio aren't going to be playing that particular kit. Their experience alone makes a comparison almost pointless.

From the context clues of the OP's post, replies and pics, the suggestions made were to make his recording experience less of a headache for everyone; the drummer, the engineer, the rest of the band, pretty much everyone. If his situation has a budget to take the time to set up, mic, get level, etc, and then record a kit like that, then he would also have the budget to get cymbals that weren't broken, spare heads, the whole 9.

When it comes to recording, I can dig the fact that at some point you've got to get your feet wet, but come on. If this was going to be a real, professional recording project, the engineer would probably scrape the entire kit and go with a rental. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's the truth. The bottom line is what I've already stated; this kit is not a studio kit but a "look at all my stuff" kit and nothing more. I can only hope that the suggestions made were taken to heart because I feel certain they would make for a more enjoyable recording experience for everyone involved. Maybe I'm wrong, but my experience tells me otherwise.








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Scrogs wrote:

Finally, recording drums is alot like playing live, the more you do it, the more comfortable and better you get at it.

Too true. Some people seem to make a natural transition. Not me.








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That set would be murder to mic properly.








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rufus4dagruv wrote:

From the context clues of the OP's post, replies and pics, the suggestions made were to make his recording experience less of a headache for everyone; the drummer, the engineer, the rest of the band, pretty much everyone. If his situation has a budget to take the time to set up, mic, get level, etc, and then record a kit like that, then he would also have the budget to get cymbals that weren't broken, spare heads, the whole 9.

When it comes to recording, I can dig the fact that at some point you've got to get your feet wet, but come on. If this was going to be a real, professional recording project, the engineer would probably scrape the entire kit and go with a rental. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's the truth. The bottom line is what I've already stated; this kit is not a studio kit but a "look at all my stuff" kit and nothing more. I can only hope that the suggestions made were taken to heart because I feel certain they would make for a more enjoyable recording experience for everyone involved. Maybe I'm wrong, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Word. I think weve all been kinda walking around the fact this is a DIY. Plywood floors, a dingy couch and I think a floor fan? Ive never been in a pro studio like that before. But hey, everyone gave some good advice and any experience recording is good experience and more you had before you started. So have some fun with it.

Hey, some cats think playing their friends party for $50 some summer afternoon makes them semi-pro? I guess we all have different ideas of how things really are. Some call it a studio, some call it a rehearsal space with mics and a board. Whatever I guess








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rufus4dagruv wrote:

SHOGUNWARRIOR32 wrote:

I'm kinda havin a problem with these automatic conclusions of "big kit = bleed" or "big kit = less concentration on the music" come on guys.. doesn't it really depend on the engineer, studio, micing technique, etc.? ... hasn't Portnoy, Peart or even Bozzio proven that?

Just like an artist using whatever paint he needs for his painting..take whatever drums, hihats, cymbals you want to use.. if there's bleed ..don't take it out on the drums...find another engineer.

Just my 2 cents.

Shogun

Yes, it depends on quite a few factors, but Portnoy, Peart, or Bozzio aren't going to be playing that particular kit. Their experience alone makes a comparison almost pointless.

From the context clues of the OP's post, replies and pics, the suggestions made were to make his recording experience less of a headache for everyone; the drummer, the engineer, the rest of the band, pretty much everyone. If his situation has a budget to take the time to set up, mic, get level, etc, and then record a kit like that, then he would also have the budget to get cymbals that weren't broken, spare heads, the whole 9.

When it comes to recording, I can dig the fact that at some point you've got to get your feet wet, but come on. If this was going to be a real, professional recording project, the engineer would probably scrape the entire kit and go with a rental. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's the truth. The bottom line is what I've already stated; this kit is not a studio kit but a "look at all my stuff" kit and nothing more. I can only hope that the suggestions made were taken to heart because I feel certain they would make for a more enjoyable recording experience for everyone involved. Maybe I'm wrong, but my experience tells me otherwise.

I go back and look at his kit and I see a simple nice 6 piece kit with a couple extra cymbals..and very nice cymbals at that ..except for the broken one but who knows maybe that broken cymbal gives a good effect under a mic... not like it's a 12 piece with gongs, percussion, etc. A little exaggeration goin on here? There's no reason he shouldn't get a good recording with that kit. Sure he may have to rearrange some things to make room for mics, etc. but to declare "it's not a studio kit" and to say scrap the kit to get a rental is ridiculous.

Rufus..you attacked this dude's post by "declaring" it's nothing but a "look at all my stuff" kit and declaring the kit "not a studio kit" and a "worst nightmare"..because why?..he's got nothing more but 2 more toms than the 4 piece kit you play and a couple more cymbals? Now it's a "nightmare"?
I've had my share of the grueling recording process as much as the next guy and also learned that you can in fact get great recordings with something more than a 4 piece kit with 2 cymbals.

Eote...take that bad ass kit and experiment until you get the best sound you can.. nothing wrong that kit bro.








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Shogun, now you're the one making the assumptions. You obviously have not read all of the posts, and if you have, you've simply cherry picked your own talking points.

If, and I mean IF, this cat is going into a professional studio to record, then I am a bit envious of the kind of money he or his band is has to throw down to "experiment" and get a good sound with his kit.

I never said anything about the size of his kit compared to the one I use. In fact, his theoretical approach to recording couldn't be more different from how I have approached tracking in the last year, but I digress. This isn't about my kit, it's about his. Mismatched tom heads because that's all he had access to at the last minute means he really wasn't prepared for the recording process. Regarding the cymbals, he said that on some songs he uses bright sounds and dark sounds on others. It has been SUGGESTED that he use the appropriate cymbals for the current songs and then switch them as necessary.

I have already apologized for seeming harsh and do not see any need to do it again. Anything one posts on a message board is open to compliment as well as criticism. Just because something is said or suggested means the OP has to do what's been said.

And, for the record, I do not criticize other people's kits based on how many toms they have. I am not a jealous child. If that's what works for their situation, then so be it. If I wanted/needed more toms or another kick, nothing is stopping me from getting them. I stand by my posts. EOTE, do what you've got to do and try to have fun doing it.








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nightcrawler_steve wrote:

rufus4dagruv wrote:

From the context clues of the OP's post, replies and pics, the suggestions made were to make his recording experience less of a headache for everyone; the drummer, the engineer, the rest of the band, pretty much everyone. If his situation has a budget to take the time to set up, mic, get level, etc, and then record a kit like that, then he would also have the budget to get cymbals that weren't broken, spare heads, the whole 9.

When it comes to recording, I can dig the fact that at some point you've got to get your feet wet, but come on. If this was going to be a real, professional recording project, the engineer would probably scrape the entire kit and go with a rental. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's the truth. The bottom line is what I've already stated; this kit is not a studio kit but a "look at all my stuff" kit and nothing more. I can only hope that the suggestions made were taken to heart because I feel certain they would make for a more enjoyable recording experience for everyone involved. Maybe I'm wrong, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Word. I think weve all been kinda walking around the fact this is a DIY. Plywood floors, a dingy couch and I think a floor fan? Ive never been in a pro studio like that before. But hey, everyone gave some good advice and any experience recording is good experience and more you had before you started. So have some fun with it.

Hey, some cats think playing their friends party for $50 some summer afternoon makes them semi-pro? I guess we all have different ideas of how things really are. Some call it a studio, some call it a rehearsal space with mics and a board. Whatever I guess

I smell a tiny tad of ego in both of those posts.

Some really great sounding recordings have been made in a "rehearsal space with mics and a board".

I've had both great and terrible experiences with "professional recording studios". Just because an engineer has a million dollars worth of gear to work with doesn't mean he or she's any good.








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Alan_ wrote:

I smell a tiny tad of ego in both of those posts.

Some really great sounding recordings have been made in a "rehearsal space with mics and a board".

I've had both great and terrible experiences with "professional recording studios". Just because an engineer has a million dollars worth of gear to work with doesn't mean he or she's any good.

An ego? Moi?

Of course, dont you?

I dont want to speak for Rufus.

For myself, however, I guess I got caught up in the "professional recording" aspect of it. There is a difference between a "pro" studio and a "DIY" studio you have to admit. My original comment was based on a "pro" setting, ie: money spent on time, the use of ALL good heads and regret. My last post was after further evaluation and realizing this is, more than likely, a "DIY" setting. A whole other animal and much more loose. I said "have fun with it". I meant that Ive only personally had a few occassions in a professional studio and have spent much more time in a DIY studio. DIY is a blast and great experience for the real thing. Hell, a lot of DIYs sound every bit as good as the real deal (as you said Alan) and I am ALL FOR THEM. Let the record companies rot for all I care (a whole other topic).

I apologize if I took the thread title "My Studio Kit" as a literal interpretation.

To me, the kid was trying to show off his kit or he wouldnt have posted 50 frigin pictures. Which is great and fun, but isnt there a category for that already? I love to see and post as much drum porn as the next guy.

Im assuming my last paragraph is where you think my "ego" came into play. Fair enough....Ive got a healthy one to be sure. I dont see any point in coddling someone or supporting a false sense of reality. I freely admit, I laugh and get a bit irritated when these 14-17 year old kids talk about being "on tour" or "semi-pro" and basically building themselves up to impress their friends and be something they obviously ARE NOT. I realize there are a "few" cases where that indeed may be the case.

But come on, who has the ego, a false sense of what the "real deal" is or are just plain delusional in propagating such nonsense? Think supporting that train of thought is healthy? I think not. I mean that in general terms and that is not solely directed at EOTE by any means.

Im not trying to ruffle anyones feathers here or discredit anyone. I fully encourage everyone to be the best they can be and to be happy in this profession and or hobby. But I also believe in keeping it real. I am by no means the greatest drummer in the world, nor have I ever set out to be....just not my goal in life. I have however had some success in the business and enjoy it tremendously. I like sharing my experiences. Ive been doing this a LONG time.

If I was a little harsh, Im sorry. I do try to be as tactful as I can be.








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lol, yeah, I do have some ego. It's what makes me able to get up on stage in front of folks and do what I do. I did it for a living for several years, then got tired of the grind and got a day job to finance playing what I wanted to, when I wanted to. I respect folks that can do hired gun gigs day in-day out, because it's hard work. Dealing with artists, engineers, booking agents...it can be quite stressful! The rewards are great, but it's a royal pain in the ass. Touring, on the other hand, isn't stressful at all to me. I LOVE it! GET IN THE VAN.

I do agree that I would get matching new heads by any means necessary if I was going into a $200 an hour studio. And I stated earlier that the kit is going to be hard to mic set up like that. I will tend to mold my setup to where the mics are a bit.

I've really gotten into doing it diy style over the last 10 years, though. One day the band I'm in now woke up and said "Hey, we can buy the gear for about the same price as going into a good studio and hiring an engineer, plus we'll refine our knowledge of another aspect of our craft". Well, it ended up costing more than we thought to get all the gear and software, but we have a nice li'l setup now. I do have to say that it takes a LOT longer to finish a project when you have unlimited time to play around with it.








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Ha ha - Im such a dork....I guess it is in the "show your kit" category isnt it

My point is still the same and I stand by my words.

Hah, Alan, of course we all have egos. They are essential and neccessary if we are to do this crazy thing

Alan, Im with ya bro. I did the pro thing for several years myself, but got tired of beating my head against the wall and wanted some security for my future. I cant say that being semi-pro and working a full-time job is any easier though. Crap, I think its more of a strain. Well, lack of sleep anyway...its all good. Im in between bands right now actually and have been enjoying the rest and break. Ready to get back to it though. I cant go without a band for too long or I get stir-crazy.

Sorry, back on topic!

I agree with you wholeheartedly about DIY recording. Good for you guys for investing. We did the same thing for our last two CDs and I think they sound great. We did do the drums in a real studio though. Wouldnt you agree the drums are the most difficult and most expensive to DIY? We saved ourselves time and aggrivation and spent the money to have them tracked in the studio. We figured they have all the expensive and proper mics, the right rooms and acoustics and a great engineer who did us right on price. Everything else we did ourselves.

A lot longer to finsh a project???? Ummmm.....heck yeah. The hardest ppart was the wait








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totally agree on drums being difficult in a diy recording environment. the room is a little smaller than I like, but we've started getting some good sounds, good enough that we're scrapping the earlier stuff we did. Frustrating and awesome all at the same time.








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Alan_ wrote:

One day the band I'm in now woke up and said "Hey, we can buy the gear for about the same price as going into a good studio and hiring an engineer, plus we'll refine our knowledge of another aspect of our craft". Well, it ended up costing more than we thought to get all the gear and software, but we have a nice li'l setup now. I do have to say that it takes a LOT longer to finish a project when you have unlimited time to play around with it.

same here. We took the same route. Takes forever, but you have time to work towards getting EXACTLY what you want on record.

And in my experience, kits as big (and bigger) than the original poster's can be recorded successfully. It may take more work, but if that's the kit you play and you've got time to dial it in, go for it.

re: tracking cymbals and drums separately, Stewart Copeland used to do that a lot too.








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yeah, it just feels like it's taking as long for us to record as Def Leppard sometimes.








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