Okay, so I recently decided to learn jazz for my school's jazz band, and after looking at two books my band director lent me, along with some general pointers, I have to ask:

The whole style isn't just 2 & 4 on the hi-hat, swing on the ride, quarter notes on bass, and improv on snare, is it? I expected more, but when I started changing stuff up I was told to just keep it simple. Assuming that that's all there is to it, could someone describe a general jazz fill for me? I looked up some videos, and they mainly seem to be on the snare, but I though I check with you guys first.

Thanks.

There are different ways to do everything, that definitely does not exclude jazz. But nontheless if its for a concert jazz band I would keep it pretty simple unless asked otherwise, what sounds good to you, might not work well with the band as a whole.








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In a very simple perspective, yes. The hi-hat keeps the 2 & 4 and the ride cymbal propels the whole mess, with little comments being sketched in on the snare and "bombs" dropped on the bass drum.

Welcome to the world of "freehand sketching on the drumset". Your world will be a better place.








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Yeah keep it cool most of the time, swing that ride and hold the time, but really knock out the phrases. That's where the skills come in, when the brass go BAADABADOOODA go with them. You will find Jazz to be a dark art, you need to live on your musical wits. Study that Independence material hard to become fluid, the rest is your heart. Oh and it will do wonders for your straight rock/pop drumming.








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ask the director for a copy of the trumpet chart. that will fill you in a li'l more on the structure than the drum part, as far as accents go.








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Sounds a lot like my first reaction when I joined my schools jazz band last year. We just recently got back from the Heratage Jazz Festivle in Atlanta GA. We won silvers for all of our ratings. Heres the secret. Let your inner emotions come out through the music. Jazz is very emotionally driven. And just like an emotional relationship...You can't interupt someone elses emotional flow. Basically meaning, show'em what your made of but let everyone else do the same. Once you start playing with your band (Family) you all will find the common path. Use your past experiences to tap the feelings of the original song writers and you should flow well. Look up a few somgs or suggest these to you director:
~Omaha, Sing,sing,sing, Nightshift(feelings), tracks, and into the sun.~
These will help you get the edge you need for jazz. Omaha is my fav. and sing,sing,sing,nightshift and tracks we used as competition peices in GA.
Good luck man. Keep with it.....








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"We're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy" ~Seal~

At University a teacher told me the deep secret about Jazz rythms.

literally translated something like "The quarters have to be cooking" ...


trstn








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I started working on jazz properly about a year ago and I love it. On the face it seems simple and sometimes all you need to do is keep that time.

As you develop you'll start to incorporate the figures to accompany the brass and eventually you might get to do a nice little solo

The beauty of jazz is that it sounds easy, but is probably one of the hardest genre's to master. I'm a long way from that.

One bit of advice, really work on that swing pattern and make sure it's properly swinging.








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One other thing. You mentioned quarter notes on the bass drum. That's fine and will work but if you want to sound like you know what you're doing try making them all REALLY soft. It's called "feathering". You want the hits to be felt more than heard. Concentrate on doing that for a little while. After you feel comfortable being able to do that, try throwing in some harder strokes as accents (like with the brass). After you get that you can start to have a "conversation" between the kick and snare (ie. splitting patterns between the two.) There's really is more to jazz than first meets the eye.

Steaky wrote:

Yeah keep it cool most of the time, swing that ride and hold the time, but really knock out the phrases. That's where the skills come in, when the brass go BAADABADOOODA go with them. You will find Jazz to be a dark art, you need to live on your musical wits. Study that Independence material hard to become fluid, the rest is your heart. Oh and it will do wonders for your straight rock/pop drumming.

I agree, I started out drumming for High School Jazz Band. I did a lot of what you're doing, looking up jazz rhythms and such. But what I found was that it's mostly about keeping the rhythm steady connecting your accents with the rest of the bnd. I try to follow the bass line with the bass drum as much as possible, and play ghost notes on snare til a big horn part comes up and i try to follow that with the snare. Practice is the main thing, find out what works for you and the song and stick with it. Also look over all the parts of the song and try to find an underlying rhythm thats always or mostly always there, use it. I hope this was helpful and good luck.








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good posts folks. y'all covered just about everything I was going to post.

One other thing: listen to as much jazz as possible. We're all standing on the shoulders of giants, and hearing how the geniuses of the past approached phrasing can only help.








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Stark wrote:

Okay, so I recently decided to learn jazz for my school's jazz band, and after looking at two books my band director lent me, along with some general pointers, I have to ask:

The whole style isn't just 2 & 4 on the hi-hat, swing on the ride, quarter notes on bass, and improv on snare, is it? I expected more, but when I started changing stuff up I was told to just keep it simple. Assuming that that's all there is to it, could someone describe a general jazz fill for me? I looked up some videos, and they mainly seem to be on the snare, but I though I check with you guys first.

Thanks.

Well it's like saying rock drumming is just straight 4/4 (bass-snare-bass-snare) all the time. In yes, essence it's the foundation, the most basic, stripped down pattern of the genre. However, it's the little tweaks and embellishments you put on the groove to make it your own that make the difference. In fitting with the song, of course.

And there's no real 'general jazz fill' - again, put it in another context: is there such thing as a general rock fill? It's all up to you, each drummer's 'general fill' is different than the next drummer's. And there's certainly no law saying you can only do fills on the snare, that's also entirely up to the drummer in question - some like to keep it on the snare, but branch out if you feel like it! The toms and gizmos ain't there just cause they look cool.

And as far as keeping it simple, by no means does that mean don't do anything! Simple can be the most effective way to play - it's amazing how often a simple fill will sound much cooler than a ridiculously complex one. John Bonham was all about the simplicity, and listen to him!








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Yes there is a generic Rock fill.........it rhymes with ........"KER FLATS IN DAGENHAM"

Put the KER on the bass drum, snare on FLATS and Toms for IN DAGENHAM. Works every time!










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listen to drummers like elvin jones tony williams roy haynes jo jones philly joe jones kenny clarke buddy rich billy higgins bernard purdie joe morello just to name a few they will help you see what is possible on a drum kit while applying that kind of knowledge, its a wonder to behold








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Wanna learn to play jazz?

Start by buying the CD "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis, and the book "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" by Jim Chapin.

Those two things should about cover it for the next 20 years of so.

tc

The basic style of Jazz is what your music instructor gave you. Its the basis. Its to keep time for the group. Its also from the early to mid 1900's style...that thumping bass. Jimmy and Tommy Dorsey, Louis Armstrong, Les Brown, Benny Goodman. All their bands had a emphasis on the bass and 2/4 on the HH and a hwomping 1234 on the bass. But, things have changed.

your instructor wants to make sure you have the basic idea...when that is mastered...+1 on the Miles Davis, my kind of Blue...Advance Techniques...(rlrrll) Jazz is an endless possibility!








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simply put, not that isn't all jazz drumming is. i remember i used to think of drumming in terms of genre's like that and a teacher of my in cape cod, ma wrote out a few different parts to "rock" songs, "rap" songs and "jazz" songs...then played them for me...out of context they're the exact same. it'll be nice when drummers take a more practical look at drumming and say, if the patterns are the same, it doesn't belong to a specific genre. you apply a lot of the same drumming patterns you see in a jazz song to a rock song and see how it fits...you keep playing and it will. it just takes some time for you to get your head around the rudiment that's the base of the pattern. hopefully you'll start to hear different types of music and instead of applying a label like "jazz" to it, you'll pick out patterns you already know or find new patterns you can mix into any patterns you're currently working on.

anyway, when you listen to jazz, depending on the drummer, you'll notice similarities especially when they have the same teachers but you can hear in the difference between say steely dan and the mars volta, they both have the general label of jazz but that's where it ends. when you have the understanding of the rudiments, they can apply to whatever label someone else wants to give it.

2 words Max Roach








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I like that "the quarters need to be cooking.." yeah, essential..

rlrrll wrote:

Wanna learn to play jazz?

Start by buying the CD "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis, and the book "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" by Jim Chapin.

Those two things should about cover it for the next 20 years of so.

tc

oh wow, you pulled out to first two things that came to mind when i thought o learning jazz. good post

and yea, thats pretty much the way it is, depends on how much you want to put in or leave out otherwise, and how nice your instructor is with letting you do your own thing. My band teacher in high school would let me pretty much do whatever I wanted as long as i stopped where the sheets dictated.

if your a rock drummer traditionally, a lot of rock uses 8th and 16th note fills, but for jazz, start messing with your triplets a lot. (that book advanced techniques can be put to wonders with incorporating triplets and triplet accents.)

Count Basie = listen!








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Listening to Jimmy Cobb and Tony Williams alone will prove that there is so much more to jazz than the ting-ting-ta-ting on the ride, two and four chick on the hi-hat.








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