Timekeep69 wrote:

1. Triggers are not cheating.
2. I use triggers because most sound guys either don't have enough mics or they don't know how to properly mic my kit. So all I have to do is hand him 2 XLR cables to plug into his board and I'm set.

Someone should look at more of the bigger picture here...

Just understand how sad it is that we've had to adapt to the weaknesses of sound-guys -- who's job is to mic the drums right and equalize them to your demand -- but many of the times, they can't even go past the first step. I guess everyone's off trying to have fun being the musicians instead of persuing to be awesome sound-guys... And being that many of those drummers approach it with a very un-experienced, dis-tasteful style/effort, there's this huge rat-race of drummers trying to be the fastest, most-technical, machine-like drummers out there, while people elsewhere are coming up with a technology called 'trigger-technology' to be used to poorly subsititute for the poor 'passion' most sound-guys seem to put in these days.
Unfortunately, while I'm not the biggest fan of triggering acoustics, we don't really got much of a choice, in order to get fair sound-quality.

Wow, some people are really freaking ignorant here... TRIGGERING IS NOT CHEATING!

Just imagine, your playing at a crappy venue with a semi decent sound system and a sound engineer who looks cracked up. Most of the time, unless they really know what the hell they are doing, your other band mates will crank their freaking amps up so damn high that you can't hear anything except for maybe the snare and the cymbals even when ur set is miked. Now the bass drum is part of the three time keeping components (kick, snare, hi-hats), if you can't hear it, ur pretty much screwed, unless ur experienced enough and have a good sense of time and listen well enough to the music to know when changes occur. Triggering eliminates all those problems, its not cheating, its gives a cleaner sound through a PA and lets ALL nuances be heard, which if ur not an experienced drummer, can be quite a mess. You have to play VERY consistent and be VERY solid if you want to use triggers because if you even tap the drumhead ( and I'm talking about accidental taps), that trigger will pick up that vibration and send out a sound through the PA. Hell, even jazz drummers use triggers. If I'm not mistaken I think i saw Dave Weckl have a module hooked up to his kit once and he is one damn good drummer.

Yes there are ways to use triggering as cheating. As i just mentioned, all you have to do is tap at the drum and it sets off a sound. Sadly, there are people who spasm over there kits playing at like 260 BPM, but how hard are they hitting the drum? Yeah grindcore and extreme death metal aren't really my playing styles, even though i listen to it, but if you do play it, play it for real, don't just tense up and spasm over the drums. Look at George Kollias from Nile (the guy can play 260 BPM on his bass drum easy), he even said spasming over your drums to sound fast isn't playing, its stupid and fake. I'll send a link to whoever wants to see how this guys plays so fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMGqhYVwOJA

watch that and see how he uses that technique in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArS8JxsC3Mw&mode=related&search=

Heres another video or George Kollias:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVjvE3kz6u0&mode=related&search=

In this video you hear acoustic sound of his set, but his set is triggered, so a different is coming out of the monitors in the studio.
If people played more like this guy, and not just in metal, we wouldn't have this triggering issue up.

If a guitar player played incredibly fast and yet barely touched the strings, would he be a cheater?








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Rockula! wrote:

If a guitar player played incredibly fast and yet barely touched the strings, would he be a cheater?

Let's see what the rulebook says............

Oh yeah, that's right; there is no rule book.

Rockula! wrote:

If a guitar player played incredibly fast and yet barely touched the strings, would he be a cheater?

Actually, the guitarist for my band is a complete shredding prodigy (we just picked him up a couple months ago, so he's not on our record). He BARELY touches the strings when he is running FAST scales, when your a guitarist and you do this it's called GOOD TECHNIQUE. When your a drummer, it's cheating, hahaha, double standards are a bitch.








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JAdrums2k wrote:

You can spot a "cheater" a mile away

Don't get me wrong..... I'm not saying triggers are cheating

Does anyone use them for special effects sounds? or just miking purposes








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Raze Drummer wrote:

Wow, some people are really freaking ignorant here... TRIGGERING IS NOT CHEATING!

Just imagine, your playing at a crappy venue with a semi decent sound system and a sound engineer who looks cracked up. Most of the time, unless they really know what the hell they are doing, your other band mates will crank their freaking amps up so damn high that you can't hear anything except for maybe the snare and the cymbals even when ur set is miked. Now the bass drum is part of the three time keeping components (kick, snare, hi-hats), if you can't hear it, ur pretty much screwed, unless ur experienced enough and have a good sense of time and listen well enough to the music to know when changes occur. Triggering eliminates all those problems, its not cheating, its gives a cleaner sound through a PA and lets ALL nuances be heard, which if ur not an experienced drummer, can be quite a mess. You have to play VERY consistent and be VERY solid if you want to use triggers because if you even tap the drumhead ( and I'm talking about accidental taps), that trigger will pick up that vibration and send out a sound through the PA. Hell, even jazz drummers use triggers. If I'm not mistaken I think i saw Dave Weckl have a module hooked up to his kit once and he is one damn good drummer.

Yes there are ways to use triggering as cheating. As i just mentioned, all you have to do is tap at the drum and it sets off a sound. Sadly, there are people who spasm over there kits playing at like 260 BPM, but how hard are they hitting the drum? Yeah grindcore and extreme death metal aren't really my playing styles, even though i listen to it, but if you do play it, play it for real, don't just tense up and spasm over the drums. Look at George Kollias from Nile (the guy can play 260 BPM on his bass drum easy), he even said spasming over your drums to sound fast isn't playing, its stupid and fake. I'll send a link to whoever wants to see how this guys plays so fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMGqhYVwOJA

watch that and see how he uses that technique in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArS8JxsC3Mw&mode=related&search=

Weckl (Actually his long time drum engineer guy in which his name escapes me) started the triggering craze using the Simmons SDSV module blended with acoustic mic signals...
I used to do it...It was cool...
Then later with an Akai S1000 sampler...Cooler...
Then later with a Roland PM16 interfacing to an Apple laptop...Coolest...(Still use this to access special EFX and percussion via pads in the studio rig)
Live...More trouble than it's worth...
Besides I have yet to encounter a sound-man that has achieved making my Yamahas sound bad...Even with the "cheapo mic kits"...
Good drums tuned properly sound "good"...
Mic 'em...
Triggering seems rather senseless to me anymore...
Just make sure you own a nice kick mic and bring it with your kit...If the sound-man seems to know his stuff, leave it in the case...
However I do "pre-mix" my own drums a lot and send the sound-man 4 outs...
1] A Bass drum...
2] Snare...
3/4] and a left & right tom/overhead mix...
He sends me a monitor feed for any other instruments if I need them...
Very simple really...
I am control of my monitor this way...In which is a simple powered JBL Eon...

If you're going to be a drummer take up sound engineering...Learn, learn, learn...lol
Bottom line...If you have a good sounding kit, pitch the triggers...Sub-mix instead...
Not really that much more expensive nowadays...
And far more natural...

All the best...Barrie








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Buenos Nochas Meinen Freunden... ';o]

When I've used triggers, I set the sensitivity and curve so that it has real feel dynamics. that blows the whole consistency argument.
The main reason I have used them in the past is that, most soundmen in the nightclub circuits suck when it comes to drums. Very few of them know how get a good sound. My drums sound phenomenal from where i sit but the soundman always makes me sound worse than I sound.
I like my drums to sound processed when the song calls for a particular sound. If you want that big reverb snare or that gated reverb kick you can have it. Most soundmen will never give you that. I haven't used them for a while but I'm thinking of going back to using them just for that reason.

A most uninteresting thread, but the first one I saw upon returning home from the night's gig. If they work for your situation, use them to the nth degree, if you don't like them... don't. If it's a compensatory thing, then shame on you for that. In terms of sound guys, they can certainly be your best friend or your worst enemy. I've heard great drummers with crappy mixes, as well as crappy drummers with great mixes; I tend to listen to the performance. To me, that's more the measure of the player.
G

Who gives a shit about parsing words? That obfuscates the real issue, which is when to use devices that make a drum sound more consistent, or different sound but still consistent throughout the performance. If wishes were horses, then I'd ask for some bad ass mics that would perserve the acoustic nature of the drum more so than tirggers. However if the triggers are set up properly and don't misfire, they only make what you are already playing sound more "even" (wish there was a better word). I still don't see how that is cheating since the actual playing isn't enhanced, only the projection and modulation of the sound. I've heard some crappy performances with triggers and some damn good ones. If the initial underlying premise were true that the playing was actually enhanced, then there wouldn't be any crappy performances.

dwtoast72 wrote:

[quote="Empyrean Drums And you don't need your own mics. Most plays now a days worthy of a miced drum kit will provide the equipment to do so!

If you're the opener the sound guy won't give a shit how the mic's are set up on your kit. You're lucky if he gives you two and tells your drum tech to suspend them over the kit with boom stands.

Fuck mic's & triggers. Get some good V-drums and plug in straight to the board & get over it. ha ha ha ha....








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