Hey guys. I was playing a show with my jazz combo and we were doing a more laid back, bluesy improvisation. I had my 5-piece Pearl kit there with my piccolo snare, paiste cymbals and moongel on my toms (evans g2 coated heads).
After our set I started up a conversation with some other drummers (all around my age), and they wouldn't take me seriously. they were saying shit like "what are you thinking playing jazz with that kit?", "you're ruining your combo's musicianship with those cymbals", "evans g2s have no tone. if you think they do than you're tone-deaf", "you're not a real jazz drummer. real jazz drummers would never use moongel", and "paiste cymbals are all about flash. they have no real sound".

any of you guys ever run into people like this? the kind of drummers that think jazz drumming depends on what brand of drums, cymbals, heads, etc. that you use?








_________________
Speak the rhythm with your hands.

http://www.myspace.com/yjamband



Pearls, Zildjians, Vics, Evans.

no, i haven't. but those guys sound like douchebags

break the prism wrote:

Hey guys. I was playing a show with my jazz combo and we were doing a more laid back, bluesy improvisation. I had my 5-piece Pearl kit there with my piccolo snare, paiste cymbals and moongel on my toms (evans g2 coated heads).
After our set I started up a conversation with some other drummers (all around my age), and they wouldn't take me seriously. they were saying shit like "what are you thinking playing jazz with that kit?", "you're ruining your combo's musicianship with those cymbals", "evans g2s have no tone. if you think they do than you're tone-deaf", "you're not a real jazz drummer. real jazz drummers would never use moongel", and "paiste cymbals are all about flash. they have no real sound".

any of you guys ever run into people like this? the kind of drummers that think jazz drumming depends on what brand of drums, cymbals, heads, etc. that you use?

Well...you had the gig...They didn't...
**** 'em...
All the best...Barrie
PS: I play jazz with G2s on the toms...








_________________
Yamaha Beech Custom, old Ludwig Supra-Phonic, Black Beauties or Ocheltree snares, Zildjian, DW pedals, Vic Firth 3A/5A/or 8D dependent on music & mood, and Pearl Racks..."Mainly"
And Microsoft free...
Buenos Nochas Meinen Freunden... ';o]

BLS2112 wrote:

break the prism wrote:

Hey guys. I was playing a show with my jazz combo and we were doing a more laid back, bluesy improvisation. I had my 5-piece Pearl kit there with my piccolo snare, paiste cymbals and moongel on my toms (evans g2 coated heads).
After our set I started up a conversation with some other drummers (all around my age), and they wouldn't take me seriously. they were saying shit like "what are you thinking playing jazz with that kit?", "you're ruining your combo's musicianship with those cymbals", "evans g2s have no tone. if you think they do than you're tone-deaf", "you're not a real jazz drummer. real jazz drummers would never use moongel", and "paiste cymbals are all about flash. they have no real sound".

any of you guys ever run into people like this? the kind of drummers that think jazz drumming depends on what brand of drums, cymbals, heads, etc. that you use?

Well...you had the gig...They didn't...
**** 'em...
All the best...Barrie
PS: I play jazz with G2s on the toms...

I AGREE!








_________________
sabian
tama
pearl rack
vater
evans

hahaha, there are so many people who talk that kind of shit. There are people who'll tell you that jazz isn't really jazz unless it's trad jazz. Use whatever gear you want. If you like your tone and you band doesn't complain, you're doin' alright. I've had people have a go at me for using a 14" as my main crash for playing metal, it's sounds awesome, it just doesn't look the part.








_________________
Mapex Mars Pro Drums
Zildjian A & A Custom Cymbals
Remo Heads
Janus Pedals
Vic Firth Sticks, Mallets, etc.

I get so much shit from so many sides about my approach to music and performance

MY OLD BAND MEMBERS: "Rockula seemed more interested in putting on a good show instead of becoming a better musician"
SOUND MAN/CLUB EMPLOYEE: "Why do you need all that shit onstage, you only have 30 minutes anyways"
OTHER DRUMMERS "You are trying too hard to be different"
PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE: "huh?"
EVERYONE: "You're never going to make it playing that kind of music"

I have been looking at people with question marks floating over their heads for the last 15 years (and I have only gotten REALLY experimental in the last 5 or so)
To me, "the purists" are those who have settled down in their comfortable spot and don't ever want to leave for fear that they will be percieved as anything other than "a good musician"
These people are trained by "the liberal media" (sorry, about that joke) to see their own field of music in a rigid set of terms
Hence, anything extraneous in realationship to solid musicianship is considered a threat by the purists who have busted their asses practicing for hours and hours on their technique so you can go "Man, that guy is SUCH a good musician"

I am guilty of being a snob myself when I see someone taking a shortcut (like outlandish things on the stage or having some below average chick musican in her slut costume teaseing the boys in the crowd)
However, most of the time it is someone who has not taken any time to become even a competant musician

Suffice it to say, that when I am beating the living crap out of my drums, I am visualizing all of those purists and directing my rage at them
I especially like picking out the people in the crowd that I can tell have the attitude and directing all of that rage right into their eyes

Like I said before, if I hear one more musician posturing about how noble is their pursuit of being the best musician they can be
I think I am going to f***ing vomit








_________________
You say irritant, I say catalyst

Sound like pricks








_________________
Kris Marrizon

i wouldn't even pay attention to those assholes if i were you. bls2112 said it perfectly, you had the gig, they didn't. i'm willing to bet guys like that don't even have a jazz group or any group for that matter, they probably just sit downstairs on their "perfect kits" thinking they are too pure for their art to be marred by playing a gig or something equally stupid. just tune those people out.

Hey Rockula, think about this...who is the true artist here? The jazz-man trying to bee-bop just like they did it back in the day. Or someone like yourself who is pushing the limits of experimentation?

Personally, don't let 'em get to you. Do what you do and fuck them if they think they are better than any drummer who doesn't agree with their style.








_________________
Rata-tata-zzzzzzz......Drums Always!

www.youtube.com/robthedrummer

Just like how their 'techniques' are old-fashioned and classic, so it their attitude;

Pure old fashioned jealousy.

Could be the fact that your setup just didn't sound good to the audience? Maybe it was too loud?

I guess this would be like trying to play metal with an 18x16 kick, three different dark rides, one 16" crash, and toms tuned to the ceiling with Diplomat heads. Sometimes it just doesn't musically work. Are you a jazz combo or a fusion combo? Nobody faults Billy Cobham for playing the way he did with Mahavishnu but what would they say if he used the same setup and approach with say, Wynton Marsalis? It just wouldn't musically fit.

Part of being a good musician is playing with the music, not to the music. It's finding your spot within instead of forcing your spot. Hey, if being different is that important to you, more power to you. Working is important to me.

we do mostly a mix of jazz and blues (playing tunes by wynton marsalis, miles davis, duke ellington, john coltrane, thelonius monk, etc)
we even do instrumental versions of some old blues songs. we do a light, instrumental version of "Little Wing" by jimi hendrix
the fusion songs we tend to play are 70s miles davis tunes, chick corea electric band/return to forever, bill bruford's earthworks, etc.
the 5-piece is just my normal setup. three crashes, hi-hats, and one ride








_________________
Speak the rhythm with your hands.

http://www.myspace.com/yjamband



Pearls, Zildjians, Vics, Evans.

Rockula! wrote:

I get so much shit from so many sides about my approach to music and performance

MY OLD BAND MEMBERS: "Rockula seemed more interested in putting on a good show instead of becoming a better musician"
SOUND MAN/CLUB EMPLOYEE: "Why do you need all that shit onstage, you only have 30 minutes anyways"
OTHER DRUMMERS "You are trying too hard to be different"
PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE: "huh?"
EVERYONE: "You're never going to make it playing that kind of music"

I have been looking at people with question marks floating over their heads for the last 15 years (and I have only gotten REALLY experimental in the last 5 or so)
To me, "the purists" are those who have settled down in their comfortable spot and don't ever want to leave for fear that they will be percieved as anything other than "a good musician"
These people are trained by "the liberal media" (sorry, about that joke) to see their own field of music in a rigid set of terms
Hence, anything extraneous in realationship to solid musicianship is considered a threat by the purists who have busted their asses practicing for hours and hours on their technique so you can go "Man, that guy is SUCH a good musician"

I am guilty of being a snob myself when I see someone taking a shortcut (like outlandish things on the stage or having some below average chick musican in her slut costume teaseing the boys in the crowd)
However, most of the time it is someone who has not taken any time to become even a competant musician

Suffice it to say, that when I am beating the living crap out of my drums, I am visualizing all of those purists and directing my rage at them
I especially like picking out the people in the crowd that I can tell have the attitude and directing all of that rage right into their eyes

Like I said before, if I hear one more musician posturing about how noble is their pursuit of being the best musician they can be
I think I am going to fucking vomit

I feel ya. All the talk of "playing in the pocket"...."be the best you can be"....etc.... gets diluted into oft-repeated mantras that rarely do anyone (especially the proclaimer) any good at all.

It's hard to do one's own thing. For 25 years now I have been in persuit of being a professional musician. I've done fairly well. I don't own a house, I drive an adequate car (one with nearly 200k on it) and I have a pretty good network of people who care about me to help here and there. And it's a fight to try and maintain that position. You have to wake up every day "wanting" it. But what soes "it" constitute? I've been "living the dream" for all of my adult life. I've been in some lofty positions, partied with royalty (Prince Albert of Monaco, Paul McCartney, Ron Wood), and yet I live a pauper's existence.

Eventually you get tired of propping yourself up on your own stanchions and need a bit of help. Sometimes the mantras that are passed down can be the thing that somehow gets you by.








_________________
13612
www.billraydrums.com
www.myspace.com/billraydrums

Hey, playing in the pocket is a great place to be. I always try to be there.

I'm a jazz drummer. A "Purist" if you will, and those people up there have no clue what you talk about. True, there are certain cymbals and heads that do sound different than others, some more suited for jazz, some for rock, some for Scottish Drunkard Dancing. However, coming from a PURIST, the only sound you should look for is the sound that YOU want to hear. I have a very picky sound concept, took me YEARS to find my current ride cymbal.

Drum setup should matter not. Let's name a few drummers shall we? Steve Gadd, Ed Shaughnessy, Louis Bellson. None of these cats use 4-piece kits. Louis Bellson used double bass. Figure that out.

All of this is not set in stone. I can play metal with three toms, I can play jazz with 5 toms. None of that really matters. It's all about how you play them. If you play jazz fine, then don't listen to them. Those guys are jazz wannabees who just talk through their asses and try to talk about things they don't know anything about.

Hope this reassured you, coming from a "purist."

Homki890








_________________

break the prism wrote:

Hey guys. I was playing a show with my jazz combo and we were doing a more laid back, bluesy improvisation. I had my 5-piece Pearl kit there with my piccolo snare, paiste cymbals and moongel on my toms (evans g2 coated heads).
After our set I started up a conversation with some other drummers (all around my age), and they wouldn't take me seriously. they were saying shit like "what are you thinking playing jazz with that kit?", "you're ruining your combo's musicianship with those cymbals", "evans g2s have no tone. if you think they do than you're tone-deaf", "you're not a real jazz drummer. real jazz drummers would never use moongel", and "paiste cymbals are all about flash. they have no real sound".

any of you guys ever run into people like this? the kind of drummers that think jazz drumming depends on what brand of drums, cymbals, heads, etc. that you use?

Well,

When I was in Jazz band in college, I shared the chair with a guy named Trevon. When Trevon played on his Tama Swingstar kit with Pinstripe heads, he sounded fantastic! Trevon sounded fantastic on any kit! Chances are you sounded fantastic too!








_________________
Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw