Lately, I have noticed a battle between Old School drummers and New School drummers. In my opinion its most ridicules. If we know who the drummer is and he gets paid to play for a living, then they are good drummers. Old School or New School. I think this battle is more about music then the drummer. I well explain - I see a lot of post about drummer like Joey Jordison, The Rev. Chris Alder, Travis Barker all New School drummers just getting bashed about how they don’t compare with the Old School drummers like Buddy Rich, Elvin Jones, Chad Wackerman, Bill Bruford, Louis Bellson, and just too many other great drummers to list. I don’t see how they can be compared much less determine how good they are. The Old School drummers paved the way for the New School drummers. I mean if Buddy was still around and saw a lot of the New School drummer and how the Inspire our generation to play drums, He would be proud to see it. Old School drummers like Buddy Rich and some others I listed above Wanted the future drummer to surpass them. Its kind of like a father handing his business down to his son, he wants his son to run the business better then he did and to make it grow bigger. I think is all about the music!!! Everybody bashes drummers like Joey and Travis because they play punk and metal! If Travis played Jazz, I think people would say he was the next Buddy Rich. A big part of the drumming world does not except the punk and metal drummers because they think there drumming is heartless because the music they play. Like I said before, Its most RIDICULES! I love all of the drummer! I think they all have made drumming more exciting and fun! So leave the bashing to the guys who have to pick up a hammer for a living because all drummers, weather they play Jazz, Blues, Rock, Punk or Metal. They All Are Good Drummers!!!








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I Play Hard! I play Loud! I play Pearl!

Yeah i definetly agre on that...all drummers are good no mather what type of music they play...but justo for info. Travis grew up by playing jazz,fusion,latin and that bunch of stuff so he culd easily be playing jazz music if he wanted to,and joey is fast but not quite correct in his playing and he wouldn't be so good without the double bass that he has....

thats so true most these drummers dont get to show their full potential cause they serve the song. drummers and bassists arent here to show off 24/7. youll get your chance but your 1st duty is to keep the beat going and to serve the song. if your playing punk and you come up with techniqual beats like travis that fits the song thats amazing. most beats peolpe to do punk are very simple but hes very creative. travis was trained in latin and jazz. he also combines hip hop with all these other influences from jazz and latin. im not a big fan of joey jordison but it doesnt change the fact thats hes a good drummer.you cant rag on these drummers cause they guys are the product of greats like buddy rich, louis bellson and many other greats. drummers like travis barker and joey jordison pave the way for future drummers and hopefully these new drummers see that htey drew influence from buddy rich and whoever and check em out. a drummer is a drummer good or bad you gotta be encouraging and keep this up i love drums and i love giving advice and or encouraging pieces of advice is what we all should do to young and or not as talented drummers that havent hit their full potential yet.








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Rockaflodge great post man! i agree with you 100%

rockaflodge
you are completely correct
we shouldnt bash on anyone,
but talk about how everyone influences everyone else
or something profound like that








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I'll agree to certain extent. There is a bias among traditionalists against drummers who play loud genres of music. OTOH, traditionalists have usually listened to these drummers you hail, but drummers who are into Jordison, Barker, some of the others, aren't usually very exposed to music outside of their genre. I find there is often a lacking point of reference, and I think what causes a lot of conflict.

There are some GREAT drummers playing traditional jazz and fusion today that are probably carrying Buddy's torch and Elvin's torch moreso than anyone in the rock genre, but you'd be hard pressed to get kids walking around a drum shop to name them. I think if more young drummers would branch out and listen to drummers that are nothing like their heroes, you might find some common ground.

Gaddabout - Great Point. I forgot to say that I was in Jazz band for 5 years and thats what opened me up to drummers like Buddy,Elvin and Louis. I do agree that yonger and up and comming drummers need to hear and know about the older Jazz greats. I guess the hard part is to figer out how to get a 15 year old Slipknot fan to set and listen to Buddy Rich LOL... but as long as they are drumming, its a good thing!








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I Play Hard! I play Loud! I play Pearl!

Rockaflodge wrote:

Gaddabout - Great Point. I forgot to say that I was in Jazz band for 5 years and thats what opened me up to drummers like Buddy,Elvin and Louis. I do agree that yonger and up and comming drummers need to hear and know about the older Jazz greats. I guess the hard part is to figer out how to get a 15 year old Slipknot fan to set and listen to Buddy Rich LOL... but as long as they are drumming, its a good thing!

Well, I'd be happy if we could hip them to some of the modern drummers who have been heavily influenced by those great drummers of the past. I think the music would be more accessible, anyway.

A drummer serves the band he is in to some capacity. If there is a great drummer in a crappy band...the band is still crappy. That is my personal bias with the "new school" drummers and their bands. I don't like their bands music. The one gray area is Adler with LOG, if it wasn't for him I might not have otherwise checked out the band.

I've been thinking this for a while, but I just chose to ignore all the ignorant comments that both sides were making.

Thanks for posting this.

Personally, I feel that drumming is drumming reguardless of the type of music. I see all the different rudiments, stick holding styles, double/single bass, time signatures, etc. as tools that we can use when we're building every song we play, kinda like when you're building a car. Just because I use a 13mm wrench for the driveshaft on my Mustang doesn't mean the guy down the street can't use that same wrench on his BMW. Same thing with drums. Just because Buddy Rich did something in some jazz song doesn't mean I can't use it in a metal song (provided I can actually play it... minor detail) and just because Dave Lombardo did something killer in a metal song doesn't mean some kid in jazz band can't use that either.
It's all tools. The more tools you have, the more you can do. Don't limit yourself to certain drummers either. Look at ALL drummers. Chances are all the names mentioned above could drum your socks off any day, given they're alive, and they've all definately got a thing or two that you could learn from them.
Come on guys, we're all drummer here. We're all brothers. Quit all this metal vs. jazz horse crap and learn from each other.
Besides, we've got to stick together when all the retard quitarists and vocalists start saying stupid crap to us, right?








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i have come to realize that music (drumming) is an art. with that said it all boils down to oinion. everybody has their opnion so the argument is infinite..

i agree. new school drummers also have to expose them selves to the drummers that jordison and barker looked up to. barker listened to bands like bad religion, the descendents, the dead kennedys, ect. jordison probly learned from bands like slayer, testament, anthrax ect. thats what helped me at least. get into what they wer into at my age...

I may be insane, but I do not see the difference between old and new school drummers. I see drummers.

However, many people get into playing one style of music. I see this as a mistake because over the years I've seen numerous genres come and go. What is popular during this decade may not be popular in the next. So if I see a guy who can only do one thing, has very little ability to use dynamics and cannot cover the basics of other styles, I see this as a mistake. Regardless of the age of a player.

It is very different if one out of the millions has "made it" and can then rely upon this success to support a lifetime career. The "Heavy hitter" who does not make it with a big name band will have limited employment opportunities once he or she is in their forties and needs a bossa or jazz gig next thursday to pay the bills.

You see, it isn't about the ageist attitude that says one is old or new school. It is about being able to play. There are certain styles that develop a larger vocabulary than others. For example, jazz gives a person advanced coordination and independence. The reason for this is the polyrhythmic complexity of the style. Rock, as another example, lacks these advanced polyrhytms for the most part. Most straight 8th music is not overly polyrhythmic. No matter how fast the straight 8ths are played on the double kick drums.

Samba is another style that when played with depth and a knowledge of the bateria, offers many separate rhythmic ideas that need to be played in order to be authentic. If one has to cover the tamborim, repinique, surdo and caixa parts, it takes a degree of independence to do so authentically and effectively.

These rhythmic ideas generally go beyond the standard heavy rock genre and can therefore help to expand a player and his or her ideas and abilities.

But there is also something to be said of the guy who plays simple R & B and has a great groove. This drummer will still need to be able to use dynamics.

If anything, I think the basic reason why many younger drummers often state that their current idols are the equal of others is the basic need to feel that they too are worthy. There is nothing wrong with this and it is quite natural. But when this is done in such a way that sees them deny other ways of playing or that lessens the value of that achieved in the past, it is in my opinion a mistake. An arrogant mistake at that. And one that denies personal growth.

I also think the idea regarding old and new school fails to see that older players are still current and stay up to date with what is happening. They must if they are to continue working. They may not need to know the latest Slipknot hit, but they will still have to sound up to date. All the older professional musicians I know are interested in remaining current. It is the kids who may in some way see music as a rebellion against their elders, who fail to listen to the older guys and who fail to listen to the lessons of the past.

Most good musicians realise all this anyway.








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I don't know what I'm talking about!

"Don't play FOR people. Play WITH people."
- Papa Jo Jones

Yest play the dagmut drums!! I am a 23 year old metal drummer wannabe, but have had the pleasure of listening to Buddy Rich and drummers of that Era, and I listen to those who came in the 60's through the 80's(Ginger Baker, Ringo Star, Lars Ulrich Joey Kramer, Joe Bonhem to name a few), and have reflected mainly metal and rock since then (Nick Menzia, Dave Grohl, Tayler Hawkins). But recently, I came across a Dennis Chambers video online, WOW! I sat and watched DC vid's for 3 hours..the guy is amazing.
And for those who heap shit on Joey Jordison, his Slipknot suff isn't that great (then again, I dont care much for slipknot anyhow), but I saw a vid of him with Metallica last year and he played the songs better than Lars! Not putting Lars down, but his level of play as dropped.
I am primaraly a Metal fan, but I listen to just about everingthing from blues to Metal..on the other hand, I DONT listen to Rap and Country.
Dave C








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Right on man. I've been mostly inspired by Jazz drummers. Jo Jones Louie Bellson especially for metal, bringing in the double bass aspect of drumming.








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